Demon keeping - what went wrong?

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Killa
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I would also like to know what specifically can be a BA "Demon" in the purest sense of the word, set aside from anything that can be classified as "DA".

Is it the stereotypical Solomonic Demons of Judaism? What are we going by here?

I personally feel it is something only relative to the perceiver and will forever be muddled in confusion by subjective terminology.

We have to keep in mind not every region on this earth are even aware of some of those 'creatures' let alone the Judaic Demons, or even the ones spoken of in the internet and the encylopedia . (Presuming we are discussing those specific types of beings.)

Most cultures & regions have there own versions of these Spirits, and I personally believe some of these Malicious spirits are the same beings labeled differently.

The way I see it , Most people will use the word "Demon" for any Malicious intent or appearing spirit/entity.(Whether it is a True "demon" or just a malicious DA spirit, both are capable of the same things in that precise situation) If I'm not mistakened.

There are many nasty and "evil" nature spirits, many consider to be demons. But they are not really "Demons" in the sense that some may or may not carry infernal traits but they definitely don't originate From Hell Or ThE underworld. I have come across many spiritualists that dont believe in "Hellish" demons(As described in some religions), but they do believe and are aware of Malicious Spirits generally.

Now is it a really "Demon" in the way a practitioner would see a Demon, or is it really a DA spirit that can be considered native to that region? Either way if it's capable of being malicious, as it will be known and still recognized as "Demon" in that part of the world.

What I'm Just saying is, what are the specific "True Demons" as knwon mainstream in the Abrahamic Context in comparison to Regional "demons"relatively speaking that shouldn't be really considered "Demonic" in the most extreme sense.


I hope I'm making sense here. :s :zombie:


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Killa wrote:What I'm Just saying is, what are the specific "True Demons" as knwon mainstream in the Abrahamic Context in comparison to Regional "demons"relatively speaking that shouldn't be really considered "Demonic" in the most extreme sense.


I hope I'm making sense here. :s :zombie:
You make a lot of sense, and that is an imperative question..
It's impossible to accurately generalize, and difficult to compartmentalize given the varying viewpoints; and then we have many beings presented through the meta market termed 'demonic' which are simply not present in any available historical, or mythological source. Much has weighed heavily on personal definition, perceptive discovery, or those taking up previous terminology - as some might still term succubi as 'sex demons', and that is accurate to a point, yet we consider 'demonizing' to be the casting of neutral things into an evil light.

There is a lot going on here, and I firmly believe it all falls back on the dreaded language barrier of terminology. It is not as simple as someone coming along and saying "This is stated here, and seems about right, so it must be so" and asking that all fall into that system.
A mass division at play, and for those looking into involvement with 'demons' it's a horror by default to tread, unless they fully understand that the community is incapable of settling on anything between them.
We've also got the rather obvious issue of trust, in conjuration.. If you call it a demon fine, and if it is a demon..fine, but if you say it's okay without the proper insight, or you are misled, it's too little too late for all involved.
Someone, on either side of things gets trigger happy with their apparent understanding of the 'demonic', if it's not so cut and dry, there's a lot to lose in one false move.


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I'll let Ash resolve the rest of the questions since he was the one participating in the discussion.
So this is mainly a problem with terminology. On the one hand, CH removes the demon label from all entities who are known as demonic throughout history and pins the demon label on a type of entity that no DA practitioner working with demons would touch with a 10 foot pole. On the other hand, practitioners here in the meta-community and throughout occult history have long worked successfully with Demons.
However, as for CH classifications, we remove all religious labels from our own classifications, and classify on merit. Meaning, these are the nuts & bolts:

White Arts- Causes no harm, positive contribution, uplifting energy
Dark Arts- Choice do to right or wrong, generally no negative actions, dark energy but positive contribution to Keeper's life
Black Arts- Blatant disregard for free will, intentionally causes harm, absolutely no responsibility or moral sense for anyone

It's difficult, and time consuming, for people to wade through the classifications of printed text from even the last 500 years and discern whether or not an entity is truly "demonic", or if in the travels of the text (when it comes to ancient texts) if the occupation of Catholic persons in that native area caused the newly printed text to classify the entity as "demonic".

The problem is, the Catholic church has occupied the globe, and in many cases took gods & goddess in as Saints to pacify the local population, has re-written the standing religious beliefs into a more good vs. evil stand to conform to the Catholic ideology, and classifies entities who have ANYTHING to do with promiscuous sex as "demonic". Because, in the face of Catholic beliefs the belief that anything that could have sex outside of the standard one man, one woman marriage is demonic. Is it? No. Morally questionable? That's for each person to decide for themselves.

The issue also becomes in these re-vitalized texts that the Catholic church classified everything in a very black & white manner. Very little grey area. They are either on the side of good, or the side of bad, and if an entity described in local religion or folklore possessed any traits that seemingly flew in the face of Catholic beliefs, it was evil.

Because of my & Ash's background in theology we opted, in the beginning, to not classify any entity on Creepy Hollows based on the religious overtones from occupation. Which means, you have to actually do the research outside of the internet sites, and outside of the material printed in the last 250 years to find the origins.

Not to mention, anyone who has actually worked with these entities on their own come to find out very quickly that they aren't demonic, they're dark, but not demons. To say the Catholic church has vastly interfered in the ability to correctly catalog & classify entities would be a gross understatement. In their quest to dominate the world they have destroyed ancient history. What would have been better, and far more logical, would have been to preserve history and present their own case for religious beliefs, rather than destroy all that exists in order to make theirs the only choice. Of course, I'm not someone who likes something crammed down my throat. I prefer to have someone believe I'm intelligent enough to have the facts presented to me and I can make up my own mind... but, I am also someone who believes strongly in freedom.

All of the entities & their classification on Creepy Hollows are not biased by religion. We do not begrudge anyone their own religious beliefs, everyone has to find their own path. But, on CH we do not recognize one religion above another, and all of our classifications are based on each, individual entity's merit.


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You either keep them, or they keep you!


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Ok what i say obviously is my opinion & by all means everybody has the right to disagree right? but i think that people who say that ALL Demons are pure evil/strictly BA are just cowards. i'll tell you why i say this...

Long Story Short-
Every single person that i had REAL & thorough conversation about evil, life, sins, demons etc... all agree on the same thing, people are too afraid to own up to their own 'evil' either consciously or subconsciously, SIN is a man made term so that people can have something to blame for their evil thoughts/actions (sex before marriage, murder/rape of women/children etc...) so, to relive their guilty conscious so that they can go about their lifes they blame outside 'influences' let it be demons, bad parenting & every other reason imaginable. Yea i agree that
1. there's good & bad & even pure evil in everything let it be demons, djinns, succubi, hell even angels so for me the WA DA BA should have little significance when choosing spirits/entities (i think even frater had a thread of multiple expieriences as a child with a angel or archangel where the angel showed nothing but fear to him) but i do agree with BA they are nothing but pure evil with no 2nd thoughts about it.
2. people who aren't stable in life shouldnt keep any spirits at all no matter how harmless they seem to be, try & straighten your life first then consider it (im not saying i dont have any problems in life cause i got a shi*t load but i have a good control over it)

LAST but not least the only 2 things you should fear in life is BA & More importantly YOURSELF, BA might influence your way of thinking & actions but you yourself have the FINAL word of what you do (look at Jeffrey dahmer, ed gien, & chikatilo) sooner or later your going to have to face yourself for your actions & when you finally do your not going to be able to blame NOTHING/NOBODY but yourself & im pretty sure that 99% of everybody will just turn into a coward & do anything but accept the fact that they are right up there with BA. to me its the cold hard truth, its just the way the human mind is wired... sadly.

so for me i in the future when i have better control over my self & when my expierence with spirit keeping is up ill be purchasing my demons/demonesses with the only 2 sellers that i trust Jamie & Adelphia & Akelta!

ps: i also agree that DA WA also lie, who doesn't? most of the time its just little white lies no harm done remember that even angels lie,(more specifically ladies & (men)) go ahead & ask your spirits who 100% more than likely have feelings for you & love you as a lover/family if you think you could afford to lose a few pounds more than likely the 'WA' will say no as they do not want to hurt your feeling, then with the 'DA' saying something along the lines like "nah you look fine but by all means if it makes you feel more confident.
so with that i say that remember everything is my opinion & by all means if you think differently good for you, you can actually think for yourself you know what i mean? so just like me i'd appreciate it if you respect what i just said.
i also believe demons/demoness are very loving & caring & if getting one from somebody who knows what they're doing then then prepare to pass him/her down for future generations to come!

ok, that should be all for now as it pisses me off when ppl are so quick to catagorize the DA fast, & remember that this is solely my opinion.


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^ That all depends on if this is a philosophical discussion, or a technical discussion.
It's a technical perspective on the energetic spectrum that is varying from perception to perception, and this is a problem as far as knowing what you're dealing with. As long as your perception or philosophy differs from another, there is potential for facts to be lost in translation.
Concerning 'demon' keeping - at the end of the day one's personal view means nothing, unless it corresponds with that of the practitioner or system at hand.


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Bump.


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Geez...what happens when I'm away.

Back to the original post, in my opinion, he just had too much going on. I don’t think it was about balance between light and dark within himself, as to me he clearly sided with dark and wanted to be a super bad ass. He made some claims about working with demons was part of his lineage. At one point, he was a bit cocky about his ability to handle demons, thus upsetting his soon to be savior, the exorcist. Who before the attack didn't even want to help him. Then as fate would have it, turned him back on to religion.

He only turned back to Yahweh/God/Allah, when he felt betrayed by his belief. I don’t recall him wanting to be stronger to get rid of “their kind” while they were in the good, though after the attack he may have changed his loyalties. This was the actual sequence of events. I notice when time passes, people remember what they want to remember, not necessarily what was true.

Lucky for you guys if a demon turns on you, you guys can claim you didn’t know and God might save you. Though if God turns on you be expecting some tidal waves and a bunch of people to die with you. Until that day play safe.


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Demon keeping - what went wrong?
THIS ASSUMES THAT ANYTHING WENT RIGHT TO BEGIN WITH :badidea:


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Interesting thread, got confused at times, but in the end I guess what I learned is be careful with the company I keep. When it comes to keeping demons I feel that some people can handle them, but I'm not one of them. As always I learned from all the people who post on these threads so thank you all for your post!!


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