'Death of a Chaos Magician'

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Oh, Caiyros..

Your contradictions are showing. But I will offer you a response. Which for the sake of this thread's integrity, and to avoid propagating the exchanges between us which people are so tired of, will be made in private.


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Ashino Tsume roshi
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I look forward to seeing my own contradictions being shown me! I think that rather than contradicitions, i am "thrown to" the reasoning of Hegel, Kierkegaard, and Kafka.

If people are tired of full exploration of ideas, thoughts, concepts, and "the massaging of media and knowledge", then frankly "let them eat cake!" or go to a Forum where it it is a "let's think the simplest thoughts", have a mutual admiration society, and bore the hell out intellectuals, and experimenters, and have a love fest. I am sure you don't agree with that, nor do it. I don't agree with that, nor do I do it. And most likely, no one here agrees with that, or does it. More than one opinion s/b honored, rather than shut down. What we disagree with gives us as much learning as what we do agree with, and, of course, its changeable.

All ideas should be examined. And none of the readers and/or posters are children. And right now, we are all doing it.

So whats the prob?
Caiyros


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What's the prob is it's nothing to do with what you are saying at all, it's your constant baiting of me. And I have responded to you directly, which should be a sufficient explanation if you are truly unaware. So please let's refrain from continuing this here.


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brolasta
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The thing about belief is that it is a carrier to being able to tap into potentials in order to take action in order to manifest the intent but when using a base that implies there's no need for balancing out with it's underlying principle of ones belief being the sole thing that has weight, thus everything in the end is just made up has it's consequences. For example using the nec "mythos" which it really is qlipothic with it's dangerous mesopotamian "thought forms" regardless of oneselves belief has it's impact beyond the mere intent of just getting oneself rid of dogma through those means. Then we have the notion that one could really be free of dogma, or the notion that one has transcended aesthetics while all they really have done is to have inverted their appreciation of aesthetics itself towards the other side of the pendulum. In meditation / practices destroying and challenging oneselves preconcieved notions, ideals and what not is very liberating but it seems most people are seemingly doing stuff wrong given that such things gets transpired into their day to day interactions.

To give a another example, to the experienced bread and butter Chaos Mage the whole spirit keeping thing is a huge fraud because acording to them they are all thought forms - servitors dependent on pure psycological belief alone. I know because I have seen multiple times conversations at different both very large and small groups regarding that.

But I digress, you were just disseminating CM ideas, I still have a thing for CM although AOS was -a how is it called a person that takes ideas from other people and pastes them as theirs? I mean, even illustrations of "his" are not really his own.

I hope you don't take this as an attack towards you Noc, you're a well appreciated, respected and balanced person in this forums I'm just exposing some issues that have often times seen.


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brolasta wrote:For example using the nec "mythos" which it really is qlipothic with it's dangerous mesopotamian "thought forms" regardless of oneselves belief has it's impact beyond the mere intent of just getting oneself rid of dogma through those means. Then we have the notion that one could really be free of dogma, or the notion that one has transcended aesthetics while all they really have done is to have inverted their appreciation of aesthetics itself towards the other side of the pendulum. In meditation / practices destroying and challenging oneselves preconcieved notions, ideals and what not is very liberating but it seems most people are seemingly doing stuff wrong given that such things gets transpired into their day to day interactions.

To give a another example, to the experienced bread and butter Chaos Mage the whole spirit keeping thing is a huge fraud because acording to them they are all thought forms - servitors dependent on pure psycological belief alone. I know because I have seen multiple times conversations at different both very large and small groups regarding that.
Honestly, if this is an issue you have observed with me.. you must misunderstand my stance entirely. Which is a pleasant thing, it means we're intellectually on the same page.

What you've stated is singularly and unavoidably important.
In fact I've advised this personally to friends when exploring other belief systems or releasing themselves from certain religious ideals. I know I have posted the same before.
I think the simple 'inversion' is obvious, and an obvious issue for those who believe they are free from dogmatism. As long as you are governed by something, as long as there is restriction or law, you cannot be free from it. (Though my previous point was simply that dogmatism can be used as a tool).
But it is healthy to have developed your own set of morals, values, principles, whathaveyou.. what you will and will not do, what you like and do not like, meaning or meaninglessness.. there's nothing wrong with that, as humans we're prone to it. We could all do with a little direction, if nowhere else at our foundation.. but that will also vary from person to person.

So if that is the norm for the chaos mage, then I am not the typical chaos mage.. and I wouldn't title myself so singularly. I'm a necromancer, I'm a ritualist, I'm an occultist, I'm a witch.. I specialize in things. I have opinions. I am versed in psychology and physics, mysticism and ritual magick, science and religion. I incorporate 'chaos magick' and discordian sensibilities as a reflection of my admiration for 'Chaos' itself.
I think the modern (though we're talking 20-ish into 21st century) incarnation of chaos magick is awesome, and the mentality to practice it is a rewarding one.

Chaos Magick isn't all about the qliphoth though, or dark forms. Chaos Magick as it's intended is about paradigm shifting, the ability to move between systems or whatever outline you wish as a methodology. It should not be confused ever, with a religion or system.. It's an innovation of magick. Discordianism is more the surrounding philosophy. And it's whatever. Reality is weird, life is absurd, nature is chaotic, truth is relative, pie is nice, pi is 3.14 and who are we.
I hail Eris as a very real goddess.

Not everyone uses the Cthulhu mythos or qliphoth, or should feel the need to.. that's something I do, nobody has to agree with it or like it.. and I don't relate it exclusively to chaos magick. That is personal interest of mine, which I have aptitude with and something I resonate to as a darker personality.
However the reason the Cthulhu mythos is popular when it comes to chaos magick, probably lies in the fact of it's own chaotic nature and the complex commentary it provides on Nature itself, duality, and multidimensional reality. I don't find any badness in it.. evil is in the eye of the beholder as well.

However, contrary to what one may think I utilize several different and contrasting paradigms. I just do as I please, with what I please, and whatever is most effective.

The individual must be criticized before the concept, we did with what we had what we saw, but that makes things needlessly personal.


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brolasta
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No, that issue I have not seen from you at all. Was talking out of interactions with lots of CM practitioners and as was said before was just generalizing. I mean, even though lot's of chaos magicians shun at Caroll in the end they do employ the dark side as a means to set free just as Caroll advocates, then there are the whacky discordians / erisians that make a good rendition of sacred clowning which I personaly find is a better means of getting past stasis until some start making their typical magical assaults.

There has got to be a reason certain behavioral patterns arises from some if not lots of practitioners though (you are also being excluded from that sentence Noc), Just a point I was trying to make.


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brolasta wrote:
There has got to be a reason certain behavioral patterns arises from some if not lots of practitioners though (you are also being excluded from that sentence Noc), Just a point I was trying to make.
I see what you mean, and value your contribution. I'd only seek to clarify about myself in case some might be getting the wrong idea.. it would seem it isn't uncommon these days, lol..

I don't think any one type has it 'right' or is without flaw. It would do a lot of good if we were all more authentically introspective. In a weird kind of way being so entails an ability to go far outside of oneself.


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brolasta
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My bad, new people could get that idea although the members that have witnessed what you have given would probaby not.
Noctifera wrote: It would do a lot of good if we were all more authentically introspective. In a weird kind of way being so entails an ability to go far outside of oneself.
Indeed.


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