AngelicPride wrote:Cherubim aren't friendly, I've found. Actually, a lot of angels are not friendly, and they tend to never be around, so don't expect any manifestations! They mostly stay up in Heaven working with God, and only come down for tasking. They don't get along with most entities, because they are not holy/of God. So, I find that if you're going to think about having angels, you basically have to be exclusive and a worshiper of Yahweh. Not much to get around that, considering the theology behind them! They're warriors and messengers of God first.

<<Removed by Mod>> wrote: There are a lot more angels than just in Christian lore. Enochian magick has a very deep root in working with angelic powers, and I communicate with them regularly. Yes, just like every other being there are some angels out there that aren't friendly. But there are also a lot of angels that are. They are creatures that have feelings and lives just like you and I. Let's not go around declaring what is truth and what isn't, please.

WhimsicalSage wrote:

AngelicPride wrote:Cherubim aren't friendly, I've found. Actually, a lot of angels are not friendly, and they tend to never be around, so don't expect any manifestations! They mostly stay up in Heaven working with God, and only come down for tasking. They don't get along with most entities, because they are not holy/of God. So, I find that if you're going to think about having angels, you basically have to be exclusive and a worshiper of Yahweh. Not much to get around that, considering the theology behind them! They're warriors and messengers of God first.

Ok, i don't mean to pick on your posts but i feel it's good to speak up here.
Your view seems to come from a very christian point of view which humanises "god". It makes your god sound like the "jealous god" archetype. Maybe i can come back to this another time but i would bet this jealous, smiting, antisocial view of angels is simply not the experiences of any who keep wa angels.

<<Removed by Mod>> wrote:

AngelicPride wrote:

WhimsicalSage wrote:

AngelicPride wrote:Cherubim aren't friendly, I've found. Actually, a lot of angels are not friendly, and they tend to never be around, so don't expect any manifestations! They mostly stay up in Heaven working with God, and only come down for tasking. They don't get along with most entities, because they are not holy/of God. So, I find that if you're going to think about having angels, you basically have to be exclusive and a worshiper of Yahweh. Not much to get around that, considering the theology behind them! They're warriors and messengers of God first.

Ok, i don't mean to pick on your posts but i feel it's good to speak up here.
Your view seems to come from a very christian point of view which humanises "god". It makes your god sound like the "jealous god" archetype. Maybe i can come back to this another time but i would bet this jealous, smiting, antisocial view of angels is simply not the experiences of any who keep wa angels.

No problem. I'm not trying to view the God that way; I'm going based off of canon and non-canon scripture, and how he has acted in similar situations. The term and theology behind angels is Abrahamic in nature, and is mostly followed by the Christian path. I'm not sure of the Jewish stand-point on the topic, and Muslims do not seem to work much with their concept of angels... And so I am going based off of what I know best. According to the Book of Watchers, Relationships/sex/procreation with humans is considered to be taboo to the angels, and immediately after the creation of the Nephilim, the Watchers are stripped of their grace and become fallen angels, and then after a bit of negotiating, they are still sent to the Abyss as punishment. So, based on that story, it can be logically deduced that God wouldn't want angels spending too much time around a single person, lest there be a repeated incident. Angels also have a ton of work to do that has nothing to do with humans; they need to take care of their own realms, worship God (The Seraphim both in canon and non-canon are in constant prayer and worship of Yahweh, singing to His Grace) or dealing with the demons/fallen/evil. They are busy creatures bound by the laws God created.

I would like to also point out that in the Book of Enoch God seemed just as angry for the Watchers disclosing his sacred secrets to humans (such as systems of magic, astrology, geomancy, even wearing makeup) because they did it without his permission. Yes, the fact that they procreated with humans upset him, but even Archangels Michael and Raphael seemed alarmed when God made the decision to cast the Grigori from his sights forever because of their supposed crimes. In my eyes you have to work with them first before you decide for yourself what they are like, and work with them in different ways. You can pray to them the Christian way, you can scry with them the Enochian way, you can call on them in sacred circle in Wicca and various forms of Hermeticism... That's why I left my Christian faith and went my own path down angel magick. Yes, I do believe some angels are under a certain code that they must follow, perhaps chosen by Yahweh. But there are many other types of angels out there that have their own duties with humans, such as in Kabbalism.

Angels do manifest, and in lots of different ways. I'm not the only one who would swear my life on it, I'm sure. I don't worship Yahweh, and yet I have close communications with Archangels Metatron and Michael, as well as an angelic guardian who speaks to me on a regular basis through meditation. Written text is just that--written text. It's very difficult to base an entire belief system about one being on just a book or two without having personal experiences with such to back up the debate.

AngelicPride wrote: I'm done with this discussion, since it's obvious you won't bother to look up what I'm talking about. I would like to point out the irony of you saying that the Books of Enoch is not reliable as a structure for angelology, but you are working with an Archangel who is only ever mentioned within those books (Metatron, who was originally the human prophet Enoch, and then turned into the Archangel Metatron, whose name in Hebrew means 'Little Yahweh'). [color=b00023](Little mighty one no text associated with the early old testament even in the original Hebrew names god outright) [/color] Yes, angels can be called on in different religions... But does that make it good? Angels I would like to think, only answer the call because they are obligated to as helpers of humanity, not because they agree with what we do.

Hermeticism, Enochian, and Kabbalism all stem from Christianity during different periods of its growth. [color=b00023](Judaism which is the predecessor of Hebrew religion is where all these have there basis. And kabbaal was Adapted by Moses from Egyptian mysticism) [/color] They are similar to Catholicism or Protestantism in that they are branches of Christianity, with a slightly different style of worship and ideas... But the basic theology is still there. Kabbalic, Enochian, and Hermetic angels still follow the codes of Yahweh, considering those branches are still Christian. [color=b00023]Christianity is not the basis of most dealings with angels, a lot was absorbed from other religions with a strong foundation of Judaism, the teachings of Christ and his followers, and Roman paganism. As the religion began to spread it absorbed different things from various religions to ease the conversion for the locals. [/color] Wicca is a new religion and unreliable as a source, considering Gerald Gardner borrowed a lot of ideas from Mysticism and Celtic lore without much research. So... Not a good example.[color=b00023]Gardner put a lot of research into his work, it's the modern adaptations that are based off of Gardninean wicca that are lacking in research. By comparison at least. [/color]

I do work with angels and Archangels, and I have worked with them for a long time. I am currently working towards my Bachelor of Theology (Third year this Autumn) if you need to know my credentials for what I am talking about.

fire083 wrote:[color="b00023"]your last statement tells me that you are at a Christian University, don't know many outside of those who teach theology. Which explains the incorrect statement that kabbaal and hermeticism come from Christianity in its early stages which they do not. [/color]