Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby Aprophis » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:48 am

Charles_Odinforce wrote:By that reasoning though, I've never met a true WA being, and I've met a grand total of one BA which I think you and I have talked about.

Well, if anything, the Nymphos CH conjures would be WA. They don't even defend because they don't want to cause harm. Then again, they're spirits so they wouldn't exactly need to defend themselves most of the time.

Charles_Odinforce wrote:Really I think sometimes a lot of headaches could be solved with a classification of "Light, Gray, Dark, Red" With Light and Dark being gravitation points, Gray being the mid point, and Red representing something that all it wants to see is blood (hence red.)

Well, even then, it would probably happen that people started to argue about Red being nice because they had a Red bound for whatever reason by whatever definition the conjurer used as Red (dangerous, but not deadly, because they do like to see blood but not just that and and and)

The real problem, I think is, that we apply human values and patterns on Inhuman things and concepts.
We will never understand them and we shouldn't try to. We should accept them as what they are the way they are even if we can't understand them.


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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby Charles_Odinforce » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:00 am

Aprophis wrote:The real problem, I think is, that we apply human values and patterns on Inhuman things and concepts.
We will never understand them and we shouldn't try to. We should accept them as what they are the way they are even if we can't understand them.


That I can agree with at the very least. I think also that may be why classification is so hard. We have to use human concepts to classify, and in that those concepts will invariably seem incomplete on some level. No matter how complete a classification we would give a thing, it will always be from our perspective of how it operates.


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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby Likes2Read » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:01 pm

I can conceive of a WA being willing to fight, or even inflict harm, *IF* the reason is that they are acting in self-defense or protecting another against some form of malice or attack. But no WA would instigate a needless fight, or engage in pushing others around with their strength. They'd save that show of strength for when it was truly needed, and justified by the situation.


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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby Charles_Odinforce » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:28 pm

Right and then this gets into the concept of good in the human perspective L2R, some people say all violence is wrong (many of the past gurus have said as such) and that any act of violence is a lesser act of evil. From their perspective a TRUE WA being could never act in violence, even to defend itself. They see such things as just another shade of the DA, maybe a "lighter" shade, but certainly not WA. This is why classification is so hard. How do you define good and evil? To me evil is watching as evil happens, to others evil is only in the action, not in the consequence of it.


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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby WolfKnight » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:03 am

Charles_Odinforce wrote:Right and then this gets into the concept of good in the human perspective L2R, some people say all violence is wrong (many of the past gurus have said as such) and that any act of violence is a lesser act of evil. From their perspective a TRUE WA being could never act in violence, even to defend itself. They see such things as just another shade of the DA, maybe a "lighter" shade, but certainly not WA. This is why classification is so hard. How do you define good and evil? To me evil is watching as evil happens, to others evil is only in the action, not in the consequence of it.
Yeah that is more of a modern definition of WA or 'Light and Dark', especially after the time of Vatican II I think or some kind of reform that happened which said "It is not acceptable anymore for people on the Light/WA half of the path to fight under any circumstances. To do so is dark,"

When the 'WA' or 'Light' path had actually dedicated branches to the purpose of 'fighting evil' and dangers. Howcome this thing came about that said "It is only acceptable for those on dark to be forceful in any way, shape or form?"

Like have they forgotten about the sun or fire?



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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby WolfKnight » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:05 am

Charles_Odinforce wrote:That's a good point, I think the problem though is that WA then also suggests a being that no matter how much harm is done to it could never potentially strike back in retaliation, could never and would never defend itself. This is of course the problem with these definitions. DA becomes more Gray Arts, GA, and WA becomes a bit of a myth with BA becoming a bit of a terror. Still generally speaking we humans have to classify things, and we use generalities that are a bit non-dynamic.

By that reasoning though, I've never met a true WA being, and I've met a grand total of one BA which I think you and I have talked about. The BA still having reason, but its nature was to destroy. Reason for it was just a new way to find ways to destroy, with its greatest hope to be one day taking everything else and itself out at one time.

By the very nature of a TRUE BA being, I don't think we'd even be able to reason with it in any capacity, binding it (as in forming a link) would at best be a bad idea, at worst suicidal as it would try to kill the practitioner every step of the way, and any binding would have to be forced.

The other side of that, I know of some in other mystical communities who work with beings who exist only to destroy humans. They make alliances only on the condition that the act of working with a human allows them to take more lives. Such beings are... maybe the mid way point between DA and BA by the common definition.

Really I think sometimes a lot of headaches could be solved with a classification of "Light, Gray, Dark, Red" With Light and Dark being gravitation points, Gray being the mid point, and Red representing something that all it wants to see is blood (hence red.)

I will say the mental exercise of discussing this though is, if nothing else, a valuable meditation in itself for looking at how we see the world, and why we do.
Well the reason 'Black' is used I think is to mean that it is so devoid of any 'light' including the tiniest shade to a point where it is like the void, where there is 0 life of any kind. Everything is pure destruction, nothing is left. No growth or any of that. Thus 'Black Arts' like the void instead of red?



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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby WolfKnight » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:06 am

But I think the Japanese and Tibetan 'Light' paths alongside the Muslim one rejected this 'pacifist' or 'play a passive role' reform. Whatever it is that happened, whether it had anything to do with Vatican II or not and its effects in influencing the others. As you said the idea of evil being you sitting around and willingly doing nothing while it happens used to be a bigger thing.



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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby Charles_Odinforce » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:11 am

As a note on light and dark, the idea that black would be more destructive than white/light doesn't account for the fact the most destructive forces we come across in our general cosmos are fire, and the sun. Light by its very nature is very destructive when taken too far. Still conventions have to be settled certainly to really understand things as they are. I always preferred light, gray, and dark with a spectrum and most people/beings being closer to that center point than the other two.


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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby Alys » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:41 am

Charles_Odinforce wrote:As a note on light and dark, the idea that black would be more destructive than white/light doesn't account for the fact the most destructive forces we come across in our general cosmos are fire, and the sun. Light by its very nature is very destructive when taken too far. Still conventions have to be settled certainly to really understand things as they are. I always preferred light, gray, and dark with a spectrum and most people/beings being closer to that center point than the other two.


Agreed



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Re: Do genuinely ‘BA’ humans exist in your opinion?

Postby WolfKnight » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:17 am

Charles_Odinforce wrote:As a note on light and dark, the idea that black would be more destructive than white/light doesn't account for the fact the most destructive forces we come across in our general cosmos are fire, and the sun. Light by its very nature is very destructive when taken too far. Still conventions have to be settled certainly to really understand things as they are. I always preferred light, gray, and dark with a spectrum and most people/beings being closer to that center point than the other two.
I think the sun cults and Zoroastrianism were the earliest ‘Light’ or ‘WA paths’ basically. Then gradually overtime in the west it was sugarcoated, but I think you or somebody mentioned that ‘dark’ paths have also been somewhat sugarcoated?

Just not to the point where the ‘it’s ok to use fight in certain situations’ thing hasn’t been taken out yet?




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