There is no easy definition of a Demon. You have classifications of what claims to be "demons" but the word "demon' does not exist. Demon is a man made term and it is so linear that we have to break away from it.

Morag Rockwind wrote:There is no easy definition of a Demon. You have classifications of what claims to be "demons" but the word "demon' does not exist. Demon is a man made term and it is so linear that we have to break away from it.

I disagree; that is like saying we have to break away from the word angel.

Demon is a specific type of spiritual entity, just as is angel. There is no need to dispose of the word.

What we need to do is have an understanding that within this category are varied types.

creepyhollows wrote:As for the "demons" people are keeping as companions, you should know exactly what you have as a companion, even if they are benign. You should always know what you are sharing your life with.

As a Christian I really had a big issue with demons in general. The Church pretty much lumps everything other than an Angel as a demon. I am not a fan of the Black Arts. I have had an unbound demon for over 11 years that I just sent to be bound. I used to subscribe to Ash' theory that ALL demons are bad. After my experience I realize judgeing people and entities is wrong. My Djinn considers some Djinn as demons. I really give up on classifications. When my Whites embrace my Blacks and they all work together it gives me considerable pause for thought. Just when I think I know something I realize there is so much more that I don't know. :facepalm::

:baghead:
FYA

Morag Rockwind wrote:There is no easy definition of a Demon. You have classifications of what claims to be "demons" but the word "demon' does not exist. Demon is a man made term and it is so linear that we have to break away from it.

Demon is not exactly a man made term. It is a specific type of entity. Unfortunately, other DA/BA entities get lumped with demons. The real demons are the ones that do nothing to help mankind without something in return.

Yes, there are those entities that are classified as demons, but are not. They are the BA entities that help mankind and ask nothing or almost nothing in return. A real demon is not in that category. All they know is malice and agony. They would as soon destroy you as to look at you. They truly hate humans and angels alike.

To borrow from living taxonomy, there are many species within Genus 'demon', and it's in the same Order as Genus 'faerie'. ;D

I go by pattern and composition...what energies the being is made of, and how those energies are arranged within it, which reveals its 'lineage' (at least up to a point). So, demons all have a similar pattern, and thus a similar 'feel'.

Huffette wrote:

Morag Rockwind wrote:There is no easy definition of a Demon. You have classifications of what claims to be "demons" but the word "demon' does not exist. Demon is a man made term and it is so linear that we have to break away from it.

Demon is not exactly a man made term. It is a specific type of entity. Unfortunately, other DA/BA entities get lumped with demons. The real demons are the ones that do nothing to help mankind without something in return.

Yes, there are those entities that are classified as demons, but are not. They are the BA entities that help mankind and ask nothing or almost nothing in return. A real demon is not in that category. All they know is malice and agony. They would as soon destroy you as to look at you. They truly hate humans and angels alike.

I disagree. It is evident by your comment that you have never worked with demons closely or for any length of time. It is a shame really that the few bad apples in the bunch get the title demons when their brethren who actually help humans not because it makes them happy but because they get to exercise their power and therefore gather status in their realm do not. That's like saying that djinn who belong to the Shaitan or Ghul tribe are real djinn but the others who belong to the Marid, Ifrit or Jann tribe are not real djinn.

Another example are angels. If we follow your logic then the angel that was sent to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah and also the angel that was sent to kill all the first born children in Egypt cannot be called angels, because as we know, angels are "sweet and benign" always. Read the Bible and you will arrive to the conlcusion that there is no smile of an angel without the wrath of God. The one exception was Gabriel during the annunciation to Mary, but which personally it looks to me like God violated Mary and impregnated her without her conscent and sent an angel to tell her about it She did not have a choice.

The spirit world does not opperate under the "black or white" umbrella of judgement any more than the human world. Nothing in the whole of creation operates that way so it would be an error to do in the first place.

Falicea272 wrote:

Huffette wrote:

Morag Rockwind wrote:There is no easy definition of a Demon. You have classifications of what claims to be "demons" but the word "demon' does not exist. Demon is a man made term and it is so linear that we have to break away from it.

Demon is not exactly a man made term. It is a specific type of entity. Unfortunately, other DA/BA entities get lumped with demons. The real demons are the ones that do nothing to help mankind without something in return.

Yes, there are those entities that are classified as demons, but are not. They are the BA entities that help mankind and ask nothing or almost nothing in return. A real demon is not in that category. All they know is malice and agony. They would as soon destroy you as to look at you. They truly hate humans and angels alike.

I disagree. It is evident by your comment that you have never worked with demons closely or for any length of time. It is a shame really that the few bad apples in the bunch get the title demons when their brethren who actually help humans not because it makes them happy but because they get to exercise their power and therefore gather status in their realm do not. That's like saying that djinn who belong to the Shaitan or Ghul tribe are real djinn but the others who belong to the Marid, Ifrit or Jann tribe are not real djinn.

Another example are angels. If we follow your logic then the angel that was sent to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah and also the angel that was sent to kill all the first born children in Egypt cannot be called angels, because as we know, angels are "sweet and benign" always. Read the Bible and you will arrive to the conlcusion that there is no smile of an angel without the wrath of God. The one exception was Gabriel during the annunciation to Mary, but which personally it looks to me like God violated Mary and impregnated her without her conscent and sent an angel to tell her about it She did not have a choice.

The spirit world does not opperate under the "black or white" umbrella of judgement any more than the human world. Nothing in the whole of creation operates that way so it would be an error to do in the first place.

Demon is a man made term as is angel....

The spirit world does operate in black and white and varied colors inbetween specifically for judgement...

That world is different than this and wisdom, knowledge and understanding is complete within this world... It is nothing like the human world in no sense of the word or world.

There is a price that comes into play when working with both angels and demons, using the terms in the general...

Concerning your description of angel from the biblical perspective these beings where commanded to do such by a power greater than them...


A soldier always follows orders as do demons follow orders as well...

Concerning mary if you look deeply within the scripture you will see that the immaculate conception is a lie and hold no more water than a jug with holes.... There was no violation. The birth was natural, if it was not than how would the child be direct descendant of Da"vid...

You guys really got to study before you spew nonsense...


Angels nor demons are benign and the conjurer or evocatoinist(made up word) is in as much danger when dealing with both if the operator is a fool...

However, with an in depth study of the Sigillum De Aemeth one begins to see that the potential for demons and angels as we know them to be but one or the same thing....

All light gives off shadow and all shadow is born from light..

The truth is simple they are one and the same, beings of duality, same consciousness just experiencing life on separate planes, thus I can bind a devil with an angel that correlates and in some cases vice/vers..

As above so below and as below so above...

I like your points and true she may have not worked with Demons, but I have and they are not for the ignorant, nor the arrogant or for the fool to toy with...

They are like harlots,
You have your way with them
Pay them(Keep your God D*m Word when dealing with them)
and then send them on their way..

Now when dealing with Greater Devils or sometimes Lesser malign spirits/entities a whole new set of rules apply..
Goetic Entities are not to be toyed with...
You treat them with respect..
If you lack confidence
communication with higher self
or just dabbling to get a rise
Your potential for having a very bad experience is very high...

People think when they buy a demon from a dealer they have a Masters in Demonology...

This cannot be farther from the truth..

Nobody deals with demons on a consistent basis without a trained professional, a trained professional who did the binding properly or someone who is a spiritual warrior who gets rid of them when people are over there head in <<Removed by Mod>> ..

I respect Both angels and demons...
I also treat both like Im handling a viper that has the potential to poison me or make my life a living hell for being careless..

This is not an attack, but just my view on it...

People misread me a lot and after I post this some people will attempt to say I was rude, but I swear I am not...

FYA

Frater Y.A. wrote:

Falicea272 wrote:

Huffette wrote:

Morag Rockwind wrote:There is no easy definition of a Demon. You have classifications of what claims to be "demons" but the word "demon' does not exist. Demon is a man made term and it is so linear that we have to break away from it.

Demon is not exactly a man made term. It is a specific type of entity. Unfortunately, other DA/BA entities get lumped with demons. The real demons are the ones that do nothing to help mankind without something in return.

Yes, there are those entities that are classified as demons, but are not. They are the BA entities that help mankind and ask nothing or almost nothing in return. A real demon is not in that category. All they know is malice and agony. They would as soon destroy you as to look at you. They truly hate humans and angels alike.

I disagree. It is evident by your comment that you have never worked with demons closely or for any length of time. It is a shame really that the few bad apples in the bunch get the title demons when their brethren who actually help humans not because it makes them happy but because they get to exercise their power and therefore gather status in their realm do not. That's like saying that djinn who belong to the Shaitan or Ghul tribe are real djinn but the others who belong to the Marid, Ifrit or Jann tribe are not real djinn.

Another example are angels. If we follow your logic then the angel that was sent to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah and also the angel that was sent to kill all the first born children in Egypt cannot be called angels, because as we know, angels are "sweet and benign" always. Read the Bible and you will arrive to the conlcusion that there is no smile of an angel without the wrath of God. The one exception was Gabriel during the annunciation to Mary, but which personally it looks to me like God violated Mary and impregnated her without her conscent and sent an angel to tell her about it She did not have a choice.

The spirit world does not opperate under the "black or white" umbrella of judgement any more than the human world. Nothing in the whole of creation operates that way so it would be an error to do in the first place.

Demon is a man made term as is angel....

The spirit world does operate in black and white and varied colors inbetween specifically for judgement...

That world is different than this and wisdom, knowledge and understanding is complete within this world... It is nothing like the human world in no sense of the word or world.

There is a price that comes into play when working with both angels and demons, using the terms in the general...

Concerning your description of angel from the biblical perspective these beings where commanded to do such by a power greater than them...


A soldier always follows orders as do demons follow orders as well...

Concerning mary if you look deeply within the scripture you will see that the immaculate conception is a lie and hold no more water than a jug with holes.... There was no violation. The birth was natural, if it was not than how would the child be direct descendant of Da"vid...

You guys really got to study before you spew nonsense...


Angels nor demons are benign and the conjurer or evocatoinist(made up word) is in as much danger when dealing with both if the operator is a fool...

However, with an in depth study of the Sigillum De Aemeth one begins to see that the potential for demons and angels as we know them to be but one or the same thing....

All light gives off shadow and all shadow is born from light..

The truth is simple they are one and the same, beings of duality, same consciousness just experiencing life on separate planes, thus I can bind a devil with an angel that correlates and in some cases vice/vers..

As above so below and as below so above...

I like your points and true she may have not worked with Demons, but I have and they are not for the ignorant, nor the arrogant or for the fool to toy with...

They are like harlots,
You have your way with them
Pay them(Keep your God D*m Word when dealing with them)
and then send them on their way..

Now when dealing with Greater Devils or sometimes Lesser malign spirits/entities a whole new set of rules apply..
Goetic Entities are not to be toyed with...
You treat them with respect..
If you lack confidence
communication with higher self
or just dabbling to get a rise
Your potential for having a very bad experience is very high...

People think when they buy a demon from a dealer they have a Masters in Demonology...

This cannot be farther from the truth..

Nobody deals with demons on a consistent basis without a trained professional, a trained professional who did the binding properly or someone who is a spiritual warrior who gets rid of them when people are over there head in <<Removed by Mod>> ..

I respect Both angels and demons...
I also treat both like Im handling a viper that has the potential to poison me or make my life a living hell for being careless..

This is not an attack, but just my view on it...

People misread me a lot and after I post this some people will attempt to say I was rude, but I swear I am not...

FYA

First off every word we use is man made and the obviousness of this is apparent. However whether we call entities by any other name their nature remains unchanged so if you want to argue about semantics because it makes you appear "wise" then by all mean go ahead.

Our world does not operate in absolutes. EVER. Science and Philosophy attest to that. Even in the Occult world things that seam as "absolutes" change and differ by practitioner thus the many practitioners from the past and their different methods and experiences with entities whther they are demons or angels proves this.

Sigillum De Aemeth is the greatest fraud ever created by man. Edward Kelly (a charlatan and forger of currency and documents) continually changed it's design though it years with John Dee who himself questioned on it's authenticity in his personal journal.

As for Mary, it was an example. After reading the Bible from cover to cover not once but twice (my Thesis was based on the Bible and it's many contradictions) I have come to the personal conclusion that the Bible is not only incomplete but based itself on incomplete oral traditions and errors in translation. There is a Scientific phenomenon called Parthenogenesis in which a woman can have a baby without the presence of semen. However the child will be a clone of the mother and of course always female.

Demons like angels do as they will and asisst who they wish, so yes, they are somewhat like dealing with a viper. The moment you lose respect you get bitten. That point I will agree, however, this only relates to conjuration of demons and angels and not to the aftereffects of bindings.

"The spirit world does operate in black and white and varied colors inbetween specifically for judgement..." For someone who obviously has an understanding of the occult literature, it appears here you have missed the point completely. (Based solely on the religious undertones of the occult literature extant)

"Concerning your description of angel from the biblical perspective these beings where commanded to do such by a power greater than them..." Again this is speculation and an "argument of ignorance" ensues with this point. I used a biblical example to illustrate a point not to prove the validity of it. I could have used the Koran or Torah to illustrate the same point ergo the fact that you did not understand that it was in itself an illustration of a point seriously baffles me despite your obvious "flare" in use of words.

"That world is different than this and wisdom, knowledge and understanding is complete within this world... It is nothing like the human world in no sense of the word or world." Really? Are we humans so special? This is arrogant and anyone who reads this and does not object needs to.

"Nobody deals with demons on a consistent basis without a trained professional, a trained professional who did the binding properly or someone who is a spiritual warrior who gets rid of them when people are over there head in <<Removed by Mod>> .." Yes, a professional in conjuring demons is advised and highly reccomended but after a while it becomes a detriment to the person studying and dealing with demons. I have been dealing with demons for 11 or so years and I realized that some are nasty but other are quite protective of their keeper after trust have been earned. You treat them as "harlots" (your word not mine) at your own risk. You don't pay a demon this again is more superstitious babbling. Demons pay themselves; they respect power and only power and mostly their own. They relish the opportunity to use that power in our world to gain recognition in their realm and status. Down there is "top of the food chain" mentality. Can they use their power by themselves without the need of a human? Absolutely, but what is power without having someone to witness it? (As expressed by one of my demons).

The only intelligent points you made so far are thus:

"Now when dealing with Greater Devils or sometimes Lesser malign spirits/entities a whole new set of rules apply..
Goetic Entities are not to be toyed with...
You treat them with respect..
If you lack confidence
communication with higher self
or just dabbling to get a rise
Your potential for having a very bad experience is very high..."


"Keep your God D*m Word when dealing with them"


"A soldier always follows orders as do demons follow orders as well..."

"All light gives off shadow and all shadow is born from light.." Quantum wave theory.

Finally, using your words at the end (while complete ommiting the point of the phrase "You guys really got to study before you spew nonsense...") This is not an attack, but just my view on it...

What's really funny is that your entire rebuttal is an argument of ignorance and and worthless speculation....

You did a thesis on the Tanak and new testament and you don't know simple truths means your a fool....

If the doctor was a charlatan why does enochian magic work so well?

The problem with idiots is you start off talking like you know something, but in truth you know nothing and make yourself a fool...

This is the problem with the community we have a bunch of dabblers with a bunch of really expensive books who after purchasing a demon or two think they are practitioners...

Really?

All those words, well written only to look lik
And to claim a system of very effective magivk is a fraud..

How many real practitioner here have used enochian vision/magic to great affect, please leave a smiley face, because this is outrageous.
Everything you wrote must have been out of rage, because it was all LAN eargument of ignorance.


Go away little book witch, get with a group of real practitioners to clear up your blatant ignorance....

Really?

You can't be serious, the best part of your argument of ignorance is the humorous ignorance..

I wish you the best life you can possibly have in your world of ignorance, speculation and if norance....

You obviously have no idea what your talking about, but it was well written..

More than I can say for my lazy amused reply from my smartphone...

Creepy hollows please make this place cell phone friendly..

Would you like to learn enochian magic... Yes? No?