I'm Right & You're Wrong

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It is sad just how many people are so closed minded that they cannot stand the thoughts of someone else being right.
Thank you, Magnolia, for the reminder. :thumbup:


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Very well said!!! Totally agree! :thumbup:


"Not knowing it was impossible he went there and did it" (Jean Cocteau)
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I(ts simple: If you are correct and know it and can prove it even after others have proved it. You are right - you are correct.....I totally reject the sophistry of Noc & Rain, one can see another's viewpoint and also see if it is right or wrong - it is possible and does happen ....this touchy-feely stuff does not work with truth and in fact, If I insisted that the world was a dome on top of a turtle's back, that was sleeping on top of a lotus....how many people would really say..."Ya know maybe he's right." Until recently, I never thought that it takes guts to say you are right......but the current "generation" thinks so ....that everything can be manipulated to fit the moment to create a "touchey-feeley sense of things.." Its nonsense. And frankly I won't give lip service to anything other then the planet earth is l"lumpy-round" and that we did land on the moon. If rejection of truth and fact is fun for the some, I guarantee you that whatever age you are, you will have to have a special little group to agree with you, becuase no one else will. If I told Magnolia that there was a better way to do her incredible work and came up with something....chances are 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% that I would be wrong and with her expertise automatically she would be right.....I am (apparently the only person who understands how to use Pattern Recognition in the realm of MArketing - and with this laissez-faire attitude on this subject...there is no point in talking about this further with the sole exception of my not wanting to be interpreted. I am right and its yopur propblem...its no longer mine...I am curious as to whether anyone will stand up for me and simply say I am correct and believe what they say.....


What I do find interesting is the amazing resistance to looking at this situation and seeing it other than "It has nothing to do with me...Caiyros

But a much greater mind than mine has said what I am trying to say...much better. Shakyamuni Buddha speaks in the Sundaryapundarika Sutra (The Teaching of the Lotus Mind)



A PARABLE OF THE BURNING HOUSE

Let us suppose the following case, Sariputra....There was a certain housekeeper, old, aged,

decrepit, very advanced in years, rich, wealthy, opulent; he had a great house, high, spacious, built a long time ago and old, inhabited by some two, three, four, or five hundred living beings. The house had but one door, and a thatch; its terraces were tottering, the bases of its pillars rot- ten, the coverings and plaster of the walls loose. On a sudden the whole house was from every side put in conflagration by a mass of fire. Let us suppose that the man had many little boys, say five, or ten, or wven twenty, and that he himself had come out of the house.

Now, Sariputra, that man, on seeing the house from every side wrapt in a blaze by a great mass of fire, got afraid, and...calls to the boys: "Come, my children; the house is burning with a mass of fire; come, lest you be burnt in the mass fire, and come to grief and disaster," But the ignorant boys do not heed the words of him who is their well-wisher; they are not afraid nor know the purport of the word "burning"; they run hither and thither, walk about, and repeatedly look at their father; all, because they are so ignorant.

..The man has a clear perception of their inclinations. Now these boys happen to have many and manifold toys to play with, pretty, nice, pleasant, dear, amusing, and precious. The man, knowing the disposition of the boys, says to them: "My children, your toys, which you are so loath to miss, which are so various and multifarious, [such as] bullock-carts, goat-carts, deer-carts, which are so pretty, nice, dear, and precious to you, have all been put by me outside the house-door for you to play with. Come, run our, leave the house; to each of you I shall give what he wants. Come soon, come out for the sake of these toys." And the boys, on hearing the names mentioned of such playthings as they like and desire, quickly rush out from the burning house, with eager effort and great alacrity, one having no time to wait for the other, and pushing each other on the cry of "Who shall arrive first, the very first?'

The man, seeing that his children have safely lnd happily escaped, goes and sits down in the open air on the square of the village, his heart is filled with joy and delight. The boys go up to the place where their father is sitting, and say: 'Father, give us those toys to play with, those bullock-carts, and deer-carts." Then, Sariputra, the man gives to his sons, who run swift as the wind, bullock-carts only, made of seven precious substances, provided with benches, hung with a rnultitude of small bells, lofty, adorned with rare and wonderful jewels, embellished with jewel wreaths, decorated with garlands of flowers, carpeted with cotton mattresses and woolen coverlets, covered with white cloth and silk, having on both sides easy cushions, yoked with white, very fair and fleet bullocks, led by a multitude of men. To each of his children he gives several bullock-carts of one appearance and one kind, provided with flags, and swift as wind. That man does so, Sariputra because being rich,... he rightly thinks: Why should I give these boys inferior carts, al1 these boys being my own children, dear and precious? I have such great vehicles, and ought to treat all the boys equally and without partiality. As I won many treasures and granaries, I could give such great vehicles to all beings, how much more then to my own children," Meanwhile the boys are mounting the vehicles with feelings of astonishment and wonder. Now, Sariputra, what is thy opinion? Has that man made himself guilty of a falsehood by first holding out to his children the prospect of three vehicles and afterwards going to each of them the greatest vehicles only, the most magnificent vehicle? Sariputra answered: By no means, Lord. That is not sufficient to qualify the man as a speaker of falsehood, since it only was a skilful device to persuade his children to go out of the burning house and save their lives. Nay, besides recovering their very bodies, O Lord, they have received all those toys. If that man, O Lord, had given no single cart, even then he would not have been a speaker of falsehood, for he had previously been meditating on saving the little boys from a great mas of pain by some able device.

The venerable Sariputra having thus spoken, the Lord said to him: Very well, Sariputra, quite so; it is even as you say. So too, Sariputra, the Tathagata is free from all dangers, wholly exempt from all misfortune, despondency, calamity, pain, grief, the thick enveloping dark mists of ignorance. He, the Tathagata, endowed with Buddha-knowledge, forces, absence of hesitation, uncommon properties, and mighty by magical power, is the father of the world, who has reached the highest perfection in the knowledge of skilful means, who is most merciful, long-suffering, benevolent, compassionate. He appears in this triple world, which is like a house the roof and shelter whereof are decayed, [a house] burning by a mass of misery,.... Once born, he sees how the creatures are burnt, tormented, vexed, distressed by birth, old age, disease, death, grief, wailing, pain, melan- choly, despondency; how for the sake of enjoyment, and prompted by sensual desires, they severally suffer various pains. In consequence both of what in this world they are seeking and what they have acquired, they will in a future state suffer various pains, in hell, in the brute creation, in the realm of Yamaraja (king of the dead); suffer such pains as poverty in the world of gods or men, union with hateful persons or things, and separation from the beloved ones. And while incessantly whirling in that mass of evils they are sporting, playing, diverting themselves; they do not fear, nor dread, nor are they seized with terror; they do not know, nor mind; they are not startled, do not try to escape, but are enjoying themselves in that triple world which is like unto a burning house, and run hither and thither. Though overwhelmed by that mass of evil, they do not conceive the idea that they must beware of it. Under such circumstances, Sariputra, the Tathagata reflects thus: "Verify, I am the father of these beings; I must save them from this mass of evil, and bestow on them the immense, inconceivable bliss of Buddha-knowledge, wherewith they shall sport, play, and divert themselves, wherein they shall find their rest. If, in the conviction of my possessing the power of knowledge and magical faculties. I manifest to these beings the knowledge, forces and absence of hesitation of the Tathagata, without availing myself of some device, these beings will not escape. For they are attached to the pleasures of the five senses, to worldly pleasure." they will not be freed from birth, old age, disease, death, grief, wailing, pain, melancholy, despondency, by which they are burnt., tormented, vexed, distressed. Unless they are forced to leave the triple world which is like a house the shelter and roof whereof is in a blaze, how are they to get acquainted with Buddha-knowledge?"

Now, Sariputra, even as that man with powerful arms, without using the strength of his arms, attracts his children out of the burning house by an able device, and afterwards gives them magnificent, great carts, so Sariputra, the Tathagata possessed of knowledge and freedom from all hesitation, without using them, in order to attract the creatures out of the triple world which is like a burning house with decayed roof and shelter, shows, by his knowledge of able devices, three vehicles, viz. the vehicle of the disciples, the vehicle of the pratyeka-buddhas, the vehicle of the bodhisattvas. By means these three vehicles he attracts the creatures a speaks to them thus: "Do not delight in the triple world, which is like a burning house, these miserable forms, sounds, odors, flavc and contacts. For in delighting in this triple world you are burnt, heated, inflamed with thirst inseparable from the pleasures of the five senses. Fly from this triple world; betake yourselves to the three vehicles.... I give you pledge for it, that I shall give you these three vehicles, make an effort to run out of this triple world. And to attract them I say "These vehicles are grand, praised by the Aryas, and provided with most pleasant things; with such you are sport, play, and divert yourselves in a noble manner. You will feel the great delight of the faculties, powers, constituents of Bodhi, meditations, the eight degrees of emancipation, self-concentration, and the results of self-concentration, a you will become greatly happy and cheerful."


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The strangeness factor also can show that making a statement that one can specifically know the truth and 50 million frenchman CAN be wrong........is a statement whose meaning also applies to the statement itself and therefore you shouldn't make the statement.......

So....ti,e will tell who is right. But be careful, because sometime you may pull this everything is relative bliss at a moment of great danger that could have been avoided...but ....................


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It's not touchy feely, C.. at least what I was trying to say, was to the point.
I agreed with you totally, there's no argument here.. but I say - one better be able and prepared to prove themselves. And if a fact is a fact then it can clearly be detected. If at that point it is fiercely rejected.. the Truth (capital T) is always the Truth.. there's no changing that.

Further however we must distinguish between Truth and subjective truth, both exist and that depends on the kind of discussion at play. Most arguments are a mixture of facts and perception, when personal perception gets in the way of the objective Truth, the facts are corrupted. We've got to make an effort with ourselves.


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It's not touchy feely, C.. at least what I was trying to say, was to the point.
I agreed with you totally, there's no argument here.. but I say - one better be able and prepared to prove themselves. And if a fact is a fact then it can clearly be detected. If at that point it is fiercely rejected.. the Truth (capital T) is always the Truth.. there's no changing that.

Further however we must distinguish between Truth and subjective truth, both exist and that depends on the kind of discussion at play. Most arguments are a mixture of facts and perception, when personal perception gets in the way of the objective Truth, the facts are corrupted. We've got to make an effort with ourselves.
:thumbup:


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I of course do not understand fully the points that Caiyros is making here but the touchy-feely stuff, well what can be sadly the truth to some, but is not sad indeed (subjectively) to me is that this is how we are wired, some of us... do you mean a conscious twist that is fakely enlightened? do you mean a New Age movement? I'm lost on that point.

I like Noc's bullet about making the effort to distinguish between these different kinds* of truth and agree this is necessary to evolve in our spiritual growth as individuals and as a species.

Caiyros, in doing this:
CaiyrosArlenLeStrang wrote:By means these three vehicles he attracts the creatures a speaks to them thus: "Do not delight in the triple world, which is like a burning house, these miserable forms, sounds, odors, flavc and contacts. For in delighting in this triple world you are burnt, heated, inflamed with thirst inseparable from the pleasures of the five senses. Fly from this triple world; betake yourselves to the three vehicles.... I give you pledge for it, that I shall give you these three vehicles, make an effort to run out of this triple world. And to attract them I say "These vehicles are grand, praised by the Aryas, and provided with most pleasant things; with such you are sport, play, and divert yourselves in a noble manner. You will feel the great delight of the faculties, powers, constituents of Bodhi, meditations, the eight degrees of emancipation, self-concentration, and the results of self-concentration, a you will become greatly happy and cheerful."


I'm sincerely asking,,, but how do we do this if we cannot study with monks in Tibet or literally give up all of these pleasures?? You have actually done this, right? I mean literally I have obligations here to my children and what I want for them here is stability..that means not taking off and going to Tibet (no offense intended I just mean it sounds like a wonderful but impossible to put into practical motion thing to do) Is it just through meditation, daily? What do you suggest? I enjoyed this story very much and hope this did not derail too much,

Cheerz,


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Noctifera wrote:It's not touchy feely, C.. at least what I was trying to say, was to the point.
I agreed with you totally, there's no argument here.. but I say - one better be able and prepared to prove themselves. And if a fact is a fact then it can clearly be detected. If at that point it is fiercely rejected.. the Truth (capital T) is always the Truth.. there's no changing that.

Further however we must distinguish between Truth and subjective truth, both exist and that depends on the kind of discussion at play. Most arguments are a mixture of facts and perception, when personal perception gets in the way of the objective Truth, the facts are corrupted. We've got to make an effort with ourselves.
I'll clarify....I was addressing "touchey feeley generally as part of the topic....and I was not clear enough about that....Apologies for the mixup and some quick tinking that ran several ideas together that should have been kept in separation. Again Apolies for the bad messaging on my part.

What I am saying is the proof that exists has been shown. And ignored by a huge majority. If someone else made a series of statements like I have, I would investigate them instead of talking about the messenger (and thinker-observer) as an egotist who won't allow for other opininions and somehow everyone is right AND wrong at the same time anyway.......I would have taken the person (myself) seriously because I do present as sane and intelligent...(if someone makes a snarkey comment about that, there will be immediate repercussions, but not from me or mine, the repercussions will come from walking away totally and even beating on the messenger- all this makes knowing (even later) almost impossible, on levels that go far beyond me .what many institutes call "Discovery"......is key...one examines what has been presented with an open mind....and then looks at what they have seen using different viewpoints.....Also, it is apparent that a lot of people are not familiar with Pattern Recognition nor the Comparison of Paradigms.....

I have made it clear that the issue is not:
1. Are real spirits being used or even promoted? The answer....not relevant or not part of the paradigm
2. Can these other dealers convince buyers that they are similiar to or identical with - the well known Metaphysical Sellers? Not relevant at all

Why?
1. When a market is highjacket...it is changed to serve the Highjacked Market AFTER it has been redefined...The either see the market as in the way of a similiar market....or as a "soft open spot" that they can inhabit and then redesign....There is only so much money and spending....

One market takeover that laughingly DID NOT work was back in the period 1968-70, when the Miniskirt market was invade by the Hot Pants market but it didn't work.....You might say that that was the choice of the people....to a small extent that is right........but basically since there are such people as Factors and factors can cut off money flow change it and so ...that it is amazing......Now I want to get something straight here....I have responded to other peoples' terms...in order to help thru criticizing what went wrong in the past and how I feel about it and also laying out the pattern of Pattern Recognition...in an attempt to help you very people who have treated me like an egotisitic idiot with a lot self- reighthousness ...and Poor thing doesn't really understand talk" ....So here is my final reply to what has been said about this topic....I have created and carried out Market Research, MArketing Plans, and dealt with a number of COrps whose names I cannot mention, in the US, UK, Germany, Russia, China, Tibet, & Canada with companies whose products you use. I'm cheap my price is a $500 minimum to consult and 4125.00 per hour... And I gacve you probably about 12 hours of work for free.....and I have done this on a regular basis through simple conversation in the past and a lot of it has been used. This time I have given out for free $1,990.00 worth of my time. Cheer, Chuckle, thumb your noses at the poor egotisitcal self-rightheous idiot....

BOTTOM LINE: NO MORE FREE ADVICE, ANALYSIS< PARADIGM USE......and no more if my costs (fat chance!) are offered to be paid.

The one new thing that I have learned is that there are a lot of people who truly know absolutely nothing about long-term market analysis. So Be It. Why? As the late great Will Rodgers Senior once said: "Its best to ride the horse in the direction its going..." Well, I'm gonna saddle up - I'm on the clock.


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Caiyros or anyone else reading this thread, when did it become about market analysis? What did I miss? Was this post supposed to go in this thread? confused...


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CaiyrosArlenLeStrang wrote:What I am saying is the proof that exists has been shown. And ignored by a huge majority. If someone else made a series of statements like I have, I would investigate them instead of talking about the messenger (and thinker-observer) as an egotist who won't allow for other opininions
Absolutely.. people often let their judgment of a personality, get in the way of valid information. Sadly it can prevent them from looking into the truth, valuing the knowledge presented..it's a stubborn way of being, really.

As for the rest, I'm not sure this thread was meant to address the market, and I really can't say much about it myself, but it is a dynamic to be aware of when dealing with this environment as well.. people have got to be open to that insight. Ego-driven stagnation is a killer I've witnessed.


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