I have nothing to add except that is really nice to see some healthy socratic debate and that this a wonderful and informative thread...I will be monitoring it!

Sincerely,

That was quite a response Ash; I am honored to have finally gotten a reply from you on one of my posts. Allow me to show my thanks by saying I disagree with everything you said in that post. Now I know you made it clear to dismiss my points by saying 'use logic and common sense PLZ' and I thank you for that as well. I will also remind everyone I stated at the end of my post 'if it is too good to be true, it probably is.' I should note, I am more paranoid than naïve. Are the sellers who say they have a being who can and will do that, actually telling the truth? Most likely not.

I will restate this point one more time and expand it. When I was an atheist, I did not believe in magic or spirits anymore (former Christian) because my science and math teachers used 'logic' to label all of it absurd. It was not until it happened to me that I had a change in my views. When I went back to 3 of those 'logical' people, well the response was very similar to yours. When I tried to debate them, again logic was thrown in my face as ultimate trump card for those 'logical' minds. Clearly nothing like that is possible, because, you know. Logic. I could not readily provide evidence either, which is the real stance of atheism 'I will believe it when I see it.' The idea of a being who feeds from sex sounds absurd on its face, until you meet one.

MY RESPOSE WAS REALLY FOR ANYONE READING, SO DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY. I'M NOT A SCIENTIST, & I'M NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON, BUT GIVEN MY OWN TENURE & EXPANSE OF KNOWLEDGE & EXPERIENCES IN VARIOUS AREAS OF THE PARANORMAL, LOGIC ISN'T SOMETHING THAT DENIES THE EXISTENCE OF THE PARANORMAL, IT KEEPS PEOPLE FROM BEING COMPLETELY CHAOTIC & BEING ABLE TO CLAIM A SPELL WILL TURN THE SKY RED, OR THAT YOU WILL FLOAT IN THE AIR IF YOU BUY THIS GENIE, OR YOU WILL BE ABLE TO STOP A BULLET IF FIRED AT YOU IF YOU BUY THIS SPELL, AND, BY THE WAY, THOSE ARE ALL REAL EXAMPLES FROM EBAY LISTINGS. I BELIEVE YOU CAN EVEN FIND THE ORIGINAL THREADS ON THE BOARD.

IT'S PRETTY BASIC. YOU AREN'T GOING TO DEFY THE LAWS OF THE WORLD. YOU CAN BEND THEM, INFLUENCE THEM, SHAPE THEM, BUT YOU AREN'T GOING TO BREAK THEM. I'M GLAD YOU HAD AN EYE-OPENING EXPERIENCE, GET READY, THERE'S A LOT OF THEM THAT WILL COME YOUR WAY WHEN YOU'RE IN THE PARANORMAL. I CAN GET WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BECAUSE I'M NOT SO OLD I CAN'T REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME I HAD A SPELL WORK & I THOUGHT "HA-HA-HA, I CAN RULE THE WORLD!" BUT, YOU KNOW, THE MORE YOU'RE IN THE PARANORMAL THE MORE YOU REALIZE IT'S NOT A FREE-FOR-ALL, IT'S A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT THAT, LIKE 0.00012% OF THE POPULATION ACTUALLY UTILIZES TO ITS FULLEST EXTENT, AND IT DOES HAVE AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF POSSIBILITIES, NONE OF WHICH ARE WHERE A SPIRIT, OR SPELL TURNS YOUR DNA INTO SOMETHING ELSE.

CAN YOU ACTIVATE DORMANT DNA? YES. CAN YOU USE DNA FROM VARIOUS SPECIES IN YOUR DNA TO GATHER POWER, SKILLS, & ABILITIES? YES. CAN YOU USE MAGICK, OR THE HELP OF SPIRITS TO STRENGTHEN THE GIFTS & ABILITIES IN YOUR BLOODLINE? YES. ARE YOU GOING TO WAKE UP & BE A 100%, FULL-BLOODED, FULL-FLEDGED VAMPIRE, WEREWOLF, ELF, DWARF, OGRE, MERMAID, ETC? NO.

I DON'T KNOW MAYBE AGE, & EXPERIENCE HAS LONG JADED ME AGAINST THE ROSE-COLORED GLASSES ROUTINE, BUT I'VE ALSO BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME, HAVE TESTED BOUNDARIES, HAVE TESTED MY LUCK, & EVEN BEEN STUPID ENOUGH TO PUT MY LIFE ON THE LINE A FEW TIMES TO POKE IN MATTERS I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN POKING IN. EITHER WAY, YOU LEARN, WITH AGE, WISDOM, & EXPERIENCE, THAT THE PARANORMAL ISN'T ANY THE LESS EXCITING, OR AMAZING TO DISCOVER, BUT YOU AREN'T GOING TO FALL PREY TO EVERY SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN WHO PROMISES YOU CAN DO THIS, OR DO THAT.

That last part is important, because as you stand there telling me how silly and illogical my stance is (even though I noted caution first). I say this, because people will always throw that type of dismissive insult around to discredit things they find absurd. NO different than those scientist really. Did you know that scientist have found what is called check sum code in quantum mechanics? Do you know that is related to computer science and computer code? Did you know that there is a scientific test going on to see if we are in a simulation? If proven true, code can be changed; it happens all of the time in programming.

I ACTUALLY KNOW QUITE A BIT, BUT IF THIS IS GOING TO BE A BATTLE OF WHO KNOWS WHAT, WE'LL BE HERE FOR YEARS FOR ME TO FULLY DISCLOSE EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THE PARANORMAL. I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR DECADES, & I COULDN'T FATHOM HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE FOR ME TO SUMMARIZE EVENTS THAT WOULD FULLY DISCLOSE TO YOU WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT COMPUTER PROGRAMMING, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PARANORMAL. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO MAKE CLAIMS THAT ABSOLUTELY CANNOT BE SUBSTANTIATED BY ANY MEANS, & ARE NOT BACKED BY THE REPUTABLE, PARANORMAL COMMUNITY.

I CAN COME ON HERE & SAY "HEY, I'M A DJINN NOW, I WAS VISITED BY AN ASTRAL DJINN, IT BOPPED SOME DJINNI SUGAR ON MY HEAD, & NOW I'M A DJINN. COME BUY MY DJINNI SUGAR FOR $50 A BOTTLE". YOU CAN ARGUE WITH ME UNTIL YOU'RE BLUE IN THE FACE, BUT IF THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO SAY, YOU CAN'T STOP ME. IT WOULD TAKE THE PEOPLE READING MY CLAIMS TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THE SITUATION, LOGICALLY, & SAY, WOULD IT MAKE SENSE FOR A DJINN TO JUST COME BOP SOMEONE ON THE HEAD WITH SUGAR & TURN THEM INTO A DJINN? WHY WOULD THE DJINN WANT TO DO THAT? WHY WOULDN'T THE DJINN WANT THE PERSON TO JUST BE WHO THEY ARE? WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE IN TURNING THEM? WHAT SUPPORT SYSTEM WOULD THERE BE FOR ME AS A DJINN NOW IN THIS WORLD? I MEAN, THIS GOES ON & ON. I WAS HOPING TO AVOID A LONG-WINDED CONVERSATION ON THIS BECAUSE ALL OF THIS ALREADY EXISTS IN OTHER PLACES ON THE FORUM, SO PLEASE FEEL FREE FOR ANYONE READING THIS TO USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.

LET'S REALLY USE SOME COMMON SENSE THOUGH. YOU BUY A VAMPIRE SPIRIT, IT'S SUPPOSED TO TURN YOU INTO A VAMPIRE ACCORDING TO SOMEONE'S CLAIM.

#1 HOW IS A SPIRIT GOING TO TURN YOUR PHYSICAL BODY INTO A VAMPIRE? THE SPIRIT DOESN'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY IN THE EARTHEN REALM.

#2 YOU'RE GOING TO BE VAMPIRE? IN THIS DAY & AGE WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT AS TO THE CHANGES YOU'LL BE GOING THROUGH, THE QUESTIONS YOU'LL HAVE, THE NEEDS YOU'RE GOING TO BE NEEDING AFTER THE CHANGE. AND, SORRY, BUT THIS ISN'T SOMETHING A VAMPIRE SPIRIT CAN HELP YOU THROUGH.

Another person on this forum documented his time with beings he said run this reality like a computer game. If any of this is true, then my answers are much more reasonable. All of a sudden this new information does make anything possible under the scope of a computer simulation/game. But you as a practicitioner have taken the stance that it can only be the way you have experienced and understood it. And yes, under those constraints, you are correct. I will always be wrong that way.

NO, MY OPINIONS COME NOT ONLY FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCES, BUT FROM HUNDREDS OF OTHERS LIKE ME WHO'VE ALSO PUSHED THE ENVELOPE FOR YEARS. I'VE ALSO SEEN PEOPLE WITH BLOGS SAYING LIZARDS ARE CONTROLLING THE WORLD, THAT THERE'S ANOTHER PLANET WITH PEOPLE JUST LIKE US RUNNING THIS WORLD, GOOGLE IT YOURSELF, YOU'LL SEE ALL KINDS OF CLAIMS. MY POINT, AS AN EDUCATOR ON THIS WEBSITE IT'S MY JOB TO LOOK OUT FOR PEOPLE & TELL THEM TO USE SOME COMMON SENSE. IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE LIZARDS RUN THE WORLD, GO FOR IT. IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE DEPOSITED HERE FROM ANOTHER PLANET & THEY'RE STILL RUNNING YOUR LIFE FROM THE OTHER PLANET, FINE WITH ME. BUT, IF YOU WANT TO START TALKING ABOUT WHAT SPIRITS CAN, & CANNOT DO, TO THEIR KEEPERS. OR, THE REACH OF MAGICK WITHIN SOMEONE'S LIFE, THEN YOU'RE TALKING TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. NOT JUST FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, BUT FROM DOCUMENTED HISTORY. I'M NOT SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LOVE TO FIND THE LOOPHOLE IN LIFE, I DO, BUT I'M ALSO NOT SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO BE DOOMED TO REPEAT HISTORY BY THINKING I CAN OUTSMART EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN TRIED BEFORE. THOUGH, I WILL ADMIT, IN YOUNGER YEARS I TRIED, & FAILED.

OF COURSE, IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE SPIRITS CAN CHANGE YOU INTO A VAMPIRE, OR THAT A SPELL IS GOING TO MAKE YOU A WEREWOLF, YOU'RE CERTAINLY WITHIN YOUR FREEDOM TO DO SO. I'M CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO STOP YOU. YOU CAN BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO BELIEVE, IT'S YOUR LIFE.

But maybe that is not ‘logical’ enough. Let me go with some evidence. My time in dealing with whatever spirit has contacted me, I have also had what seem to be very unique experiences that this board full of spirit keepers and spirit sellers have not been able to understand or identify. And yes that involves physical effects as well. I spoke about the tendril problems. How they yank on my third eye, etc..Had a fender bender 2 days ago, my neck was stiff as hell and I had a huge headache. I told my ladies not right now my neck hurts, and I got a cool, slow vibrating massage and now, my neck is 100 percent in less than 24 hours. All of these physical sensations and physical cures in some cases resulted from them. Despite my description of these events, almost everyone wrote it off as medical. Guess what, I came back clear as a bird! I can’t hear my girls, but when I told them to stop, the sensations stopped. Yet on this board of experts I get the ‘that’s not what’s supposed to happen.’ Satan and Sons sells a third eye surgery, which some have sworn by and documented their physical responses.

YOUR EXPERIENCE ISN'T UNIQUE, PEOPLE HAVE PHYSICAL RESPONSES FROM THEIR SPIRITS, BUT THEY AREN'T CHANGING YOUR DNA BY HELPING YOU. THEY ARE UTILIZING THE AVAILABLE CHANNELS THAT EXIST & CAN BE USED TO EVOKE A PHYSICAL RESPONSE. I'M NOT SURE HOW WE'RE GETTING OFF TOPIC ON HOW SPIRITS CAN PHYSICALLY INFLUENCE YOU, THAT'S NOT WHAT IS BEING DEBATED. WHAT IS BEING DEBATED IS A FULL CHANGE IN DNA. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW SPIRITS CAN STIMULATE VARIOUS PARTS OF YOUR PHYSICAL BODY, OR MIRACLES THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE PRESENCE OF SPIRITS, OR MAGICK, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS BOARD, YOU'LL FIND PLENTY OF EXAMPLES.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GETTING THAT ON THIS "BOARD OF EXPERTS" THAT PHYSICAL INTERACTIONS DON'T HAPPEN. I DON'T RECALL MYSELF, OR MAGNOLIA, EVER SAYING ANYTHING TO THAT EFFECT ANYWHERE ON THIS BOARD. IN FACT, WE'VE STATED THE OPPOSITE NOT ONLY ON HERE, BUT ALSO IN OUR ARTICLES & LISTINGS. SPIRITS CAN TOUCH YOU, CAN REACH OUT TO YOU IN VARIOUS WAYS, CAN MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE A PINCH/BITE/RUB/BRUSH ETC ON YOUR SKIN. BUT, ARE THEY CAPABLE OF STRANGLING YOU TO DEATH? NO. THERE'S LIMITS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT "EXPERTS" YOU'RE QUOTING, BUT IF YOU HAVE LINKS TO THREADS, I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM.

How can we be sure of anything really unless we know the WHOLE truth, whatever that might be. I do not mean to be rude but…are you the official spokesperson for the Gods? I did not realize they told you explicitly everything there is to possibly know. You can tell me how time, the afterlife, and sex all fit in with absolute truth. How do immortals exactly have the power to be immortal? Can you replicate that effect in a lab? How about the fact that we can only see and hear so much, and only perceive very little. We are very limited in our understanding of things, so how do we know where logic stops and possibilities starts or vice versa? In this realm alone scientist now believe there could be a potential 8 billion planets like earth, not to mention all of the vast amounts of realms or universes that exist. Not only do we have immortals who might have done it, but we have practically an infinite (as a mathematician, I can assure there are subsets of infinity inside infinity) amount of beings. And based on statistics (another college course I took) its reasonable to assume if we have immortals who can do it, there are others as well. Maybe not in this universe, but if the seller can reach another universe… doubtful that they can. BUT CAN AN IMMORTAL DO THIS OR NOT?

I LIKE YOUR SARCASM & GENERAL DISRESPECT, IT'S REFRESHING IN A DEBATE. I DON'T RECALL WHERE I SAID I WAS A GOD, BUT I'M GAME IF THEY ARE. IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN IN THE UNIVERSE, WE COULD BE HERE ALL DAY & I'LL BE GLAD TO ENGAGE YOU. WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS OFF TOPIC IN ABOUT 10 DIRECTIONS. I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, ANYTHING CAN BE POSSIBLE BECAUSE ALL THESE WORLDS EXIST, AND IMMORTALS EXIST, AND THIS & THAT EXIST, BUT IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE TO SAY THAT THE UNIVERSE ISN'T BOUND BY CERTAIN, UNSHAKABLE LAWS & TRUTHS.

I MEAN, YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASICALLY LIKE THE "AIR" ARGUMENT. YOU CAN'T SEE IT, BUT IT'S THERE, SO THERE MUST BE A GOD. IT'S A GREAT ARGUMENT BECAUSE IT'S A WAY TO EXCUSE ANYTHING YOU WANT TO EXCUSE. YOU'RE YOUNG, & THIS IS THE KIND OF RATIONALIZATION & REASONING YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE, & YOU SHOULD, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T THEN THE WORLD DOESN'T SEEM ALL THAT EXCITING. BUT, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S 8 BILLION EARTHS, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S ONE GOD, OR 100, WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S SEX IN THE AFTERLIFE.......... IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN A SPIRIT, OR MAGICK, CAN TURN YOU INTO A VAMPIRE, OR WEREWOLF.

DON'T CLOUD THE ISSUE WITH ALL THESE EXAMPLES & EXCUSES OF HOW MANY UNIVERSES THERE MAY BE, & HOW MANY IMMORTALS ARE IN CHARGE OF THEM. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF A SPACESHIP LANDS TOMORROW & 20 GREEN GUYS WITH GOGGLES GET OFF & DO A ROCKETTE'S NUMBER ON TOP OF THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL, IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN A SPIRIT, OR MAGICK, CAN TURN YOU INTO A VAMPIRE, OR WEREWOLF. NOT TO MENTION, THOSE 20 LITTLE GREEN GUYS ARE ALSO BOUND BY THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE, AND BOUND BY THE LAWS OF THEIR OWN SPECIES.

THERE'S A LOT HUMANS CAN ACCOMPLISH, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING & EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE. THAT'S REALLY DANGEROUS REASONING, & I'D LIKE YOU TO THINK FOR A MOMENT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE PERMANENTLY TURNED OFF FROM THE PARANORMAL BECAUSE THEY ARE MADE AN OUTLANDISH PROMISE BY AN UNSCRUPULOUS SELLER, THE PROMISE DOESN'T COME TRUE, THEY ARE DISENCHANTED WITH THE PARANORMAL AS A WHOLE, & MISS OUT ON IT FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE. BECAUSE THAT HAPPENS & DON'T THINK FOR A SECOND IT DOESN'T. AGAIN, THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED AS WELL, USE THE SEARCH BOX FOR PAST THREADS.

If we assume that there are immortals that can morph mortals into other forms and if there are an infinite number of universes, and we assume there is something similar to an immortal in those universes, then there exist a subset of an inifinite number of beings (one being per universe at least) that can possibly perform the act. If you say false, then you can prove that immortals cant do that, that there are finite universes instead of infinite, and that you can prove no immortals exists in those said universes that are capable of the act?

SURE, IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE "INFINITY, I WIN!" CARD. I MEAN, COME ON, THE DISCUSSION ISN'T WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S AN INFINITE NUMBER OF UNIVERSES. MY GOD, YOU MUST BE ONE OF THOSE DEBATE CLUB PEOPLE, WE'RE SO FAR OFF THE TOPIC BY THE END OF THIS THREAD IT'S LIKE TALKING TO A POLITICIAN. FOR SAKE OF DISCUSSION, BECAUSE HONEST TO GOD, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS IS, LET'S SAY THE UNIVERSE IS A SINGULAR ENTITY WHICH ENCOMPASSES ANY NUMBER OF GALAXIES, PLANETS, SOLAR SYSTEMS, ETC. THE UNIVERSE, AS THIS VAST, ENORMOUS, INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO A HUMAN, SPACE, IS GOVERNED BY LAWS SET FORTH BY THE ENTITY(IES) THAT CREATED THE UNIVERSE. ALL BEINGS, SHRUBS, FOLIAGES, ORGANISMS, ETC ARE ALL BOUND BY THE LAWS SET FORTH BY THEIR OWN EXISTENCE. AND, EVEN IF YOU WANT TO SAY THERE'S 10 ZILLION UNIVERSES, WHERE ALL THESE THINGS DIE & GO INTO THE SPIRITUAL REALM WHERE THEY TAKE ON A SPIRITUAL FORM, THEY STILL AREN'T COMING BACK & CHANGING YOU INTO A VAMPIRE, OR WEREWOLF. :lol:

BUT, HEY, WHAT DO I KNOW? IF YOU WANT TO GO FOR IT, & BELIEVE A SPIRIT, OR MAGICK, CAN TURN YOU INTO ANYTHING YOU WANT, BY ALL MEANS, DIVE STRAIGHT IN. IT'S YOUR SHOT IN THIS LIFE, DO IT YOUR OWN WAY.

TELL YOU WHAT, WE'LL SETTLE IT THE OLD-FASHIONED WAY. I'M GOING TO MAKE A NEW THREAD, ANYONE WHO'S BEEN COMPLETELY TURNED INTO A NEW SPECIES BY MAGICK, OR SPIRIT, CAN SUBMIT THE DETAILS OF THEIR TRANSFORMATION.

HERE'S THE THREAD, LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

http://www.creepyhollows.com/phpBB3/vie ... 97&t=48210

I have stated in each post a direct response to the OP. Hopefully the third time is the charm. And I will try to be very explicit. Chances are that the seller is full of it. Much like those “BUY THIS SEX SLAVE< WEALTH, POWER, MIND CONTROL, AND LOTTERY WINNINGS. NEW PROMOTION ACT NOW.” If it is too good to be true, it probably is. However, is the idea of being turned today impossible? NO.

Did beings like werewolfs, vampires, zombies, and immortals exist? Yes

Did they convert humans in some way? According to some stories yes. If immortals did it, or one of those beings did it, then I guess it is possible to alter someones DNA or maybe DNA is not what needs to be altered. If it can be done then, why not now?

Are they all dead today? We don’t know, do we? If I was one of those beings I would not announce it on this site, which could have BA pracitinioners floating around waiting to do something to them. I would be in hiding in this world full of violent and dumb humans.

Another question. What were the mechanisms by which conversion took place? Was it a chemical effect, extreme energy manipulation, gene splicing, or what exactly? How can anyone say with certainty that its not possible if they don’t know how it was done to begin with.

As an example, the idea replicating gold seems like a very far fetched idea based on what scientist think the origin of gold is. Basically, 2 exotic stars collapsed and collided with each other and the resulting explosion produced gold. If that is the mechanism, than I think it is fair to say that we cannot achieve an alchemical effect (based on the idea alchemy was about making gold). But we really don’t understand the universe, maybe something as clever as the invention of the computer will come along and we will see how to remake gold.

It would also be thought impossible, only 30 years ago, to fit books, movies, music and more into something as small as a hard drive and have it be done as fast as the internet speed you have. Many would not have any way of describing how it could be done other than what they knew at that time. And that was only 30 years ago.

Like the gold example though, we had a big bang before, could we possibly have a practitioner reproduce that again, today? No. Clearly seeing the magnitude of what that was is clearly not on the table.

So where does transformation fall on the scale of possibility? Is it within reach, or as far off as the big bang? If something as low level as vamps, werewolfs, and zombies could do it, is it that far off? The real question lies in how it was done, and then we could see if that kind of power is in our scope. I do not think Ash can tell us how it is done, which is why I continue the debate. But he may come in and smash me any moment with a revelation behind the mechanics of transforming someone. Maybe he already did, but my insistence to wear rose colored glasses may have blinded me to that response.

There are other points of ash I would love to debate, but at that point I think I would have to start a thread in the appropriate forum as that would be going off topic.

ash-mda wrote:

So what did he do because i have tried to get him to explain it and all he says is that I have the ability as long as he stays with me. So did he choose to share his power with me? Is that why it will go away if he does? And for those of you who are curious it is a Shaitann djinn.

IF THE ABILITY IS ONLY WITH YOU AS LONG AS HE IS WITH YOU, THEN HE MAY NOT HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO YOU. INSTEAD, HE HAS SHARED HIS ABILITIES THROUGH THE CHANNEL OF THE BOND BETWEEN YOU. SPIRITS HAVE STRONG CAPABILITY IN INFLUENCING YOUR LIFE. THEY CAN MAKE YOU SEE/FEEL/HEAR THINGS, IF THEY DESIRE. THEY CAN INFLUENCE THOUGHTS, VISIONS, ALL YOUR SIMPLE & PARANORMAL SENSES, & CAN HAVE INCREDIBLE POWER THROUGH VARIOUS ASPECTS OF YOUR LIFE.

THAT'S A DARK DJINN, CERTAINLY, & NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW TO KEEPING. IS THIS A WISH THAT YOU MADE TO THE DJINN?

No it was not a wish that I made. It had never honestly occured to me to see spirits with my physical eyes before. I had gotten so used to chanelling and seeing them with my 3rd eye. You know I have read that Shaitann djinn were hard to manage and control and I have read the same about Ghuls but I have found that to be untrue of mine. They are both wonderful. The Shaitann is a male and the Ghul is a female and she shape shifts into a beautiful panther and she often sleeps beside me in her panther form. Because of what I read about them I would not get one. These came to me as unbounds though and my guardians let them stay so I knew they meant no harm. Maybe I just got lucky? They have both been with me for about 9 mos now and they get along with my other spirits and have given me no problems.

OK so lets put a twist on this and let me ask this question:

We agree so far that a spirit or entity can not change your physical body into a vampire or werewolf etc. What if we are talking about a living entity that is on the astral plane. Could they "turn" your astral self? Now I am not talking about changes like a glamour that we can do to ourselves. I am talking about a true change to your astral self.
I am loving this thread.

You can change your astral self, with but a thought, you change. The astral is mutable. Your form is mutable...but that is strictly on the astral.

I was going to leave this more or less alone, but what the heck. Personally, I'm sort of on the fence on this one. I think some very valid points were made on both sides of this argument. First of all, I do think that the word "impossible" gets thrown around too often, and I mean in general, not just when it comes to topics involving the paranormal. Just because something has been tried countless times & ended in failure, doesn't necessarily mean it's actually impossible. I mean, there have been countless people who have dedicated their entire lives to achieving one goal or another only to fail time & time again, then to die before they ever had the chance to see their dream realized, but that doesn't mean the goal was inherently unreachable. As an example, for how many centuries did mankind try to build a flying machine & fail? After countless failures, people eventually said it simply cannot be done. Yet, we now have airplanes, helicopters, jets, etc. We wouldn't have those things if people stopped trying and assumed it was "impossible" just because everyone who ever tried before had failed. In fact many of the technologies & products we not only enjoy, but take for granted, were once considered "impossible" at one point or another.

That being said, do I personally believe a spirit can transform someone into a vampire, werewolf, or what have you? Probably not. Do I think an entity could? Possibly. But as Ash pointed out, even if they could, what possible motivation would they have for doing so? Humans have a tendency to be incredibly self serving, and are notorious for abusing any position of power they are given, while giving no thought whatsoever to the consequences. Not only that, but they also have a knack for making poor choices in general. So even if a spirit or entity had the ability to "turn" a human, the chances of them feeling compelled to actually do so is highly unlikely. Besides, even if they did for whatever reason wish to transform a human into one of their own kind, they would most likely take the greatest of care in choosing someone they deemed to be truly worthy of it, and not just any Tom, Dick, or Harry that just so happened to purchase their vessel.

Whether or not I think a spell could accomplish this however, is a slightly different story. As someone who spends much of their free time studying mythology and folklore from all over the world, I know there are hundreds upon hundreds, if not thousands upon thousands of stories from all over the globe about people using magic to transform either themselves or others into various other, non-human forms. Pretty much every documented civilization has stories of this nature, which makes me think there may be something to it, but then again, most of these stories come from a time when people held some very strange ideas about how the world worked. :think: In fact, if you delve into some of the earlier werewolf or vampire lore, there were literally dozens of different ways in which one could supposedly be turned, other than to be bitten. For example, methods for becoming a werewolf ranged from wearing an enchanted article of clothing (usually a belt of all things) , to drinking freshly fallen rainwater from a wolf's paw print on the night of a full moon. Many of the methods listed were just as silly as that last one. Then there are the skinwalkers, who aren't "true" werewolves, but could use magic to take on the physical form of an animal, usually a wolf or coyote. From what I've read, the method for becoming a skinwalker involved wearing an enchanted animal pelt. The ritual used to enchant the pelt is supposedly very complicated & involved forcibly taking the life of a loved one. Anyway, I really have no idea whether these stories have any truth to them whatsoever, nor do I care to find out. I just felt like adding a bit more to the conversation, mostly because I'm bored. :lol:

A well thought out post, Shadow!

Thank you, I enjoyed reading your shared views