ash-mda wrote:LET ME BREAK A FEW THINGS DOWN FOR YOU GUYS

One way I can think of this happening is if there is a type of creature in your bloodline (ie DNA). Scientist think most DNA in humans is dormant, why exactly would it be there if it was just doing nothing?

AH, IT DOESN'T DO NOTHING, IT DOES QUITE A BIT FOR YOU, ESPECIALLY IF YOU LEARN TO WORK WITH WHAT IS IN YOUR BLOOD! BUT, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE 100% A VAMPIRE, OR 100% A WEREWOLF. YOU CAN'T RE-WRITE YOUR DNA. THAT'S THE ISSUE. THIS LITTLE LOOPHOLE IS WHAT SOME UNSCRUPULOUS SELLERS EXPLOIT & YOU HAVE TO BE LOGICAL & REASONABLE. YOU CAN'T SAY, I HAVE AN IOTA OF MERFOLK IN ME, SO I'M GOING TO USE THIS SPELL & IT'S GOING TO RE-WRITE MY ENTIRE DNA & I WILL NO LONGER BE HUMAN, I'LL BE A MERMAN. THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. SORRY. IT'S THE PLAIN & SIMPLE TRUTH. MAGICK ISN'T GOING TO DO THAT TO YOU & A SPIRIT DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, IS THE AUTHORITY TO RE-WRITE AN ENTITY INTO SOMETHING ELSE.

I HAVE AN ENTIRE THREAD ON THIS: http://www.creepyhollows.com/phpBB3/vie ... 88&t=40928

Could that be our old DNA when we were vampires or whatever? If scientist were allowed to mess with genetics more (putting moral agruments aside for a moment) and they also got awoken to the spirit world. Could they find out perhaps that the dormant DNA is our old werewolf DNA, could they activate it? Whether or not scientist could do it is kinda mute, just a possibility, but can magic or spirits do it?

YOU ARE STILL NOT GOING TO BE A VAMPIRE, OR A WEREWOLF. YOU'RE REMNANT FROM BLOODLINE PRESENCE ISN'T GOING TO RE-WRITE YOUR ENTIRE BEING AS YOU SIT TODAY. TO BE TURNED REQUIRES AN ACTUAL TURNING BY A FULL-BLOODED ENTITY IN PHYSICAL PRESENCE THAT HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO SO. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU HAD A DREAM THAT SOMETHING VISITED YOU & YOU WOKE UP & NOW YOU THINK YOU'RE A VAMPIRE, OR A WEREWOLF, OR AN ANGEL, ETC. IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY. EVEN IF A PHYSICAL ENTITY WITH AUTHORITY TURNS YOU, YOU ARE STILL NOT 100% VAMPIRE, OR 100% WEREWOLF. YOU'RE A HALVER, YOU'RE A SKINNER, YOU'RE A DONNER, YOU'RE EVERY NICKNAME THERE IS FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS A HUMAN & WAS TURNED. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RESPECT, YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE ABILITIES, YOU ARE THE LOWEST ON THE TOTEM POLE FOR WHATEVER SPECIES TURNED YOU. SAD, BUT TRUE. THE VAMPIRE, OR WEREWOLF, THAT TURNED YOU MIGHT LIKE YOU JUST FINE, BUT OTHERS IN THEIR SPECIES AREN'T GOING TO RECOGNIZE YOU AS THEIR KIND. BECAUSE, WELL, YOU'RE NOT.

I cant hear my spirits, or remember my dreams very well, but I can most certainly feel them. One clear sensation I can feel is my succubus in fact sticking her finger, or something like it, into my forehead and then yanking on my pineal gland, like she was yanking on something, she yanked on it hard. I have had several physical sensations, felt clear as day and only when they are around. I also did a humming technique I was showed for 3 days for my pineal gland and that alone caused me to get huge headaches when a spirit is around. Now I am getting faint words and other things happening. That to me sounds like a physical change result from spirits. There is also legends of immortals (like the Greeks) changing humans into something else, all the time. Whats fiction and whats truth? If they were able to do it, whats to say another being cannot?

WELL, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IMMORTALS, THEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE REALM OF GODS & GODDESSES. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. A SPIRIT CAN'T CHANGE YOU, THEY ARE SPIRITS, THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO DO SO. JUST BECAUSE THEY DIED DOESN'T MEAN THEY GET TO BE ALL-POWERFUL. THAT'S RIDICULOUS, THEN EVERYONE & EVERYTHING THAT'S EVER DIED WOULD BE ALL-POWERFUL, AND THAT'S JUST NOT THE WAY IT WORKS. A UNICORN DOESN'T DIE & BECOME GOD. A VAMPIRE DOESN'T DIE & BECOME GOD. AND, BY GOD, I MEAN AN IMMORTAL ENTITY WITH CREATION/DESTRUCTION AUTHORITY. IN ORDER TO CHANGE YOU INTO SOMETHING ELSE, ENTIRELY, ASPECTS OF YOUR CURRENT SELF HAVE TO BE DESTROYED & THE NEW ASPECTS HAVE TO BE CREATED.

WHICH IS WAY BEYOND THE CAPABILITY OF MAGICK BECAUSE IMMORTALS/GODS/GODDESSES ARE THE CREATORS. THE TRUTH IS, THOUGH, THEY AREN'T COMING DOWN HERE CHANGING PEOPLE INTO GOLDFISH, LEOPARDS, FROGS, LILIES, ETC ANY MORE. THOSE DAYS ARE LONG GONE, AND THE FEW PEOPLE THEY MAY GRACE, OR PUNISH, WITH THOSE ACTIONS AREN'T RECORDING THEM INTO HISTORY ANYMORE.

YOUR SPIRITS MIGHT BE ABLE TO INFLUENCE YOU, MAKE YOU FEEL/SEE/HEAR THINGS THAT THEY WANT YOU TO, BUT THEY AREN'T CHANGING YOUR DNA. YOU CAN HAVE YOUR BLOOD DRAWN TODAY & HAVE IT DRAWN A YEAR FROM NOW, AND YOU'LL STILL BE EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE.

What about magic though?
Simply put, this is a physical world, I am a physical being, if magic cannot effect me, how can it affect the world? What is magic if it cant defy our strict physical rules? Do we have strict rules? According to quantum mechanics, we don’t have hard set rules really after all. A lot of people in both science and the metaphysical agree that we are a form of energy, matter is a condensed form of energy. If certain life forms have certain energies, then maybe it is possible, someday to change our energy patterns to that of the being we seek to become?
I don’t write anything off anymore, but when the ‘absurd’ comes along, I just think about it a lot. One thing that does seem constant, is if its to good to be true, it probably is.

YEAH, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS SO LONG I CAN DO MOST STUFF IN MY SLEEP. I'D VENTURE TO SAY, AT THIS POINT, I'VE SEEN IT ALL, DONE IT ALL, LIVED THROUGH IT ALL, AND ALMOST LOST MY LIFE A FEW TIMES ALONG THE WAY. THERE ARE LAWS & BOUNDARIES WHICH EXIST. IT ISN'T A FREE-FOR-ALL OUT HERE, OR EVEN OUT IN THE UNIVERSE. TRUST ME, IN MY EARLY YEARS I TESTED BOUNDARIES, & I SURVIVED TO TELL YOU, THEY DON'T BUDGE.

MAGICK, IS MAGICK. IT INFLUENCES, IT SHAPES, IT ENCOURAGES, BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE THE GOD AUTHORITY. NOW, YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT BLACK MAGICK & REMOVING FREE WILL, THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT SOME REALLY BIZARRE STUFF, BUT EVEN THEN, IT'S NOT A FREE-FOR-ALL WHERE PEOPLE CAN BE CHANGED INTO TREES, OR CATS, OR WOLVES. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ILLUSION REALM OF MAGICK & THE POWER TO MAKE THINGS APPEAR DIFFERENT THAN THEY REALLY ARE. OR, IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT GOD-GIFTED POLYMORPHERS, WE CAN GO THAT ROUTE TOO. BUT, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MAGICK THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD PRACTICES, IT DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH FREE WILL & THE NATURE OF THE UNIVERSE, IT SHAPE & INFLUENCES ITS DIRECTION.

THE RULES EXIST FOR THIS WORLD BECAUSE, WITHOUT THEM, IT WOULD BE CHAOS. HAVE YOU WALKED OUTSIDE AMONGST YOUR PEERS IN THE HUMAN RACE? DO YOU REALLY WANT, OR EVEN EXPECT, THAT THE RULING FORCES OF THE UNIVERSE WOULD GIVE SUCH POWER TO SUCH AN IGNORANT RACE OF BEINGS? COULD YOU IMAGINE WHAT DESTRUCTION WOULD COME FROM HANDING THE HUMAN RACE THE ABILITY TO CHANGE THEMSELVES THROUGH SIMPLE ACTS OF SPIRIT INTERACTION, OR MAGICK? I DON'T THINK SO, THE HUMAN RACE WOULD PROBABLY BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH IN A YEAR, IF EVEN THAT LONG.

IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF "WRITING THINGS OFF", IT'S A QUESTION OF SAYING, OK, I WAS BORN WITH COMMON SENSE, & LOGIC. I HAVE TO TAKE THE FACTS & FIT THEM INTO THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE. IF YOU GO AROUND WITH THE "ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE" ATTITUDE, YOU'LL BE A GRADE A SUCKER WITH "PLEASE RIP ME OFF" TATTOOED ON YOUR FOREHEAD.

THERE'S SO MANY THREADS ON THIS FORUM ABOUT THE "ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE" ATTITUDE FROM THE LAST 7 YEARS I THINK WE'VE BEEN OVER IT 100 TIMES, PLEASE, DEAR GOD, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT NEW SELLERS, & ALL KINDS OF RIDICULOUS JUNK/GARBAGE INFO, IS POPPING UP LEFT & RIGHT THESE DAYS, PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO USE SENSE, LOGIC, & DISCERNMENT.

Netheran wrote:That was quite a response Ash; I am honored to have finally gotten a reply from you on one of my posts. Allow me to show my thanks by saying I disagree with everything you said in that post. Now I know you made it clear to dismiss my points by saying 'use logic and common sense PLZ' and I thank you for that as well. I will also remind everyone I stated at the end of my post 'if it is too good to be true, it probably is.' I should note, I am more paranoid than naïve. Are the sellers who say they have a being who can and will do that, actually telling the truth? Most likely not.

I will restate this point one more time and expand it. When I was an atheist, I did not believe in magic or spirits anymore (former Christian) because my science and math teachers used 'logic' to label all of it absurd. It was not until it happened to me that I had a change in my views. When I went back to 3 of those 'logical' people, well the response was very similar to yours. When I tried to debate them, again logic was thrown in my face as ultimate trump card for those 'logical' minds. Clearly nothing like that is possible, because, you know. Logic. I could not readily provide evidence either, which is the real stance of atheism 'I will believe it when I see it.' The idea of a being who feeds from sex sounds absurd on its face, until you meet one.

I would like to comment a little on logic here. I do not discount the value of critical thinking, and logic itself, but let’s explore this offshoot for a moment. I have studied math and computer science in college and have taken courses in logic and math history. Do you know what the foundational crisis of math is? I do. In studying complex analysis and math history you will find that many of the best mathematicians feel like math is a game with a set of rules, other famous mathematicians call it ‘absurd, but useful.’ Bertrand Russell wondered if he wasted his life when set theory was shown to have a huge paradoxical flaw. He set out to prove math is a pure source of logic and wrote the encyclopedia mathematica. The first 300 pages are pure logical symbols used just to prove 1+1=2. And even then, he had to assume 7 axioms (assumed truths). No one can have pure logic or truth, because it always has to start with an assumption (axiom) and you build from that. I should know, I did a lot of math proofs in college. A lot of colleges label a pure math degree (a math degree focused on proofs/logic) a bachelors of arts. Many PHDs consider math an art.

Many think computer science is a branch of mathematics (mathematicians were the first creators of computer science). Math is also considered a branch of logic, and logic is considered a branch of philosophy. I should know, my logic class was under the philosophy department. Einstein once said “Logic will take you from A to B, creativity will take you everywhere.”

That last part is important, because as you stand there telling me how silly and illogical my stance is (even though I noted caution first). I say this, because people will always throw that type of dismissive insult around to discredit things they find absurd. NO different than those scientist really. Did you know that scientist have found what is called check sum code in quantum mechanics? Do you know that is related to computer science and computer code? Did you know that there is a scientific test going on to see if we are in a simulation? If proven true, code can be changed; it happens all of the time in programming.

Another person on this forum documented his time with beings he said run this reality like a computer game. If any of this is true, then my answers are much more reasonable. All of a sudden this new information does make anything possible under the scope of a computer simulation/game. But you as a practicitioner have taken the stance that it can only be the way you have experienced and understood it. And yes, under those constraints, you are correct. I will always be wrong that way.

But maybe that is not ‘logical’ enough. Let me go with some evidence. My time in dealing with whatever spirit has contacted me, I have also had what seem to be very unique experiences that this board full of spirit keepers and spirit sellers have not been able to understand or identify. And yes that involves physical effects as well. I spoke about the tendril problems. How they yank on my third eye, etc..Had a fender bender 2 days ago, my neck was stiff as hell and I had a huge headache. I told my ladies not right now my neck hurts, and I got a cool, slow vibrating massage and now, my neck is 100 percent in less than 24 hours. All of these physical sensations and physical cures in some cases resulted from them. Despite my description of these events, almost everyone wrote it off as medical. Guess what, I came back clear as a bird! I can’t hear my girls, but when I told them to stop, the sensations stopped. Yet on this board of experts I get the ‘that’s not what’s supposed to happen.’ Satan and Sons sells a third eye surgery, which some have sworn by and documented their physical responses.

How can we be sure of anything really unless we know the WHOLE truth, whatever that might be. I do not mean to be rude but…are you the official spokesperson for the Gods? I did not realize they told you explicitly everything there is to possibly know. You can tell me how time, the afterlife, and sex all fit in with absolute truth. How do immortals exactly have the power to be immortal? Can you replicate that effect in a lab? How about the fact that we can only see and hear so much, and only perceive very little. We are very limited in our understanding of things, so how do we know where logic stops and possibilities starts or vice versa? In this realm alone scientist now believe there could be a potential 8 billion planets like earth, not to mention all of the vast amounts of realms or universes that exist. Not only do we have immortals who might have done it, but we have practically an infinite (as a mathematician, I can assure there are subsets of infinity inside infinity) amount of beings. And based on statistics (another college course I took) its reasonable to assume if we have immortals who can do it, there are others as well. Maybe not in this universe, but if the seller can reach another universe… doubtful that they can. BUT CAN AN IMMORTAL DO THIS OR NOT?

If we assume that there are immortals that can morph mortals into other forms and if there are an infinite number of universes, and we assume there is something similar to an immortal in those universes, then there exist a subset of an inifinite number of beings (one being per universe at least) that can possibly perform the act. If you say false, then you can prove that immortals cant do that, that there are finite universes instead of infinite, and that you can prove no immortals exists in those said universes that are capable of the act?

Ok, I could go on for hours like this. I think I should stop for now. I ended up ranting far more than I wanted. WOW DID I LET GO.

MagickFromtheMysts wrote:Truth_Seeker -

The issue with your search for the "real" truth is that reality is subjective... for everyone. Which means that "truth" is also subjective.

Even among practitioners, there is a vast amount of difference of opinion, based on experience, but also based on what we've been taught is real and is not. When you exclude a possibility from your reality, you literally make it a lie by blocking its expression OUT of your reality.

There's no such thing in this world as the "real" truth... because all of reality is subjective, a hologram created by your mind that includes stimuli from various wavelengths interpreted, sometimes correctly, sometimes not, through memory and emotion, but fills in the gaps where stimuli is either missing, or ignored by the consensual reality created by your consciousness.

Even memories and emotions are not reliable, as they change over time.

Everyone agrees the sky is blue and the grass is green... but really, those are just words, and we just agree. Who knows what the color green really looks like for each of us!

Everyone knows that the world is mostly empty space, but everyone agrees that everything we are able to "touch" must be solid, therefore we touch it instead of passing through it... but that's not truth.

Define truth. Define real.

Until you can, and EVERYONE can agree with your definitions (and that's probably never going to happen), you will never get a consensus about what is possible and what is not, in magickal terms or in any other.

Reply Mags: Just to make sure what I read is correct, so it's possible to turn to a vampire or other creature then?, not 100% though.

creepyhollows wrote:

Reply Mags: Just to make sure what I read is correct, so it's possible to turn to a vampire or other creature then?, not 100% though.

If a 100%, 1st generation Vampire bit you, you would not be 100% Vampire. The percentage of the Vampiric morph you would take on varies by person, and there is not a blanket percentage. A turning is a complicated process, through which, you may gain issues you did not have before, and you may lose issues you had as a human.