The problem with labeling "ubi" as demonic, is that the name is an umbrella term for many different races who feed sexually. In Raven's case, I believe the ubi race she works with are more like Fae, and if you're talking Akelta's succubi and incubi, they are indeed a demonic race. Then you have a race like the cybernetic succubi and incubi who are not true "ubi", but the name is the best descriptor for their race. I don't know what race CH conjures, but again they are different that the above. There are also the Succubi of Lady Lilith's realm of Galamiel(sp?) who might be another seperate race under the same name.

Some shapeshift, some have unique body features only their race possess, some just have a single form. Some horns, varying wings, tails or no.

There is a danger in using generalizations to explain a specific race or group of similar races. Because there are so many different variations of a single race, there no single "correct" descriptor. In fact there are many, and even a race like Sanguine vampires vary greatly depending on the individual's bloodline. Dragons are another example of generalizations being a detriment to understanding the individual being you're looking at.

So in conclusion: yes Ubi can or cannot be demonic depending on the specific variant and race you're dealing with.

There is also danger in using a religious term to define a species. "Demon" is a religious term, used by Christians to denote anything that their church did not like. Gods, entities, nature spirits, were "demonized" to stop people from looking outside the Christian god, and the Christian priesthood, for power, or problem solving. The original word, "daemon" literally means natural spirit. Since the word demon is NOT used when discussing "nature" spirits, but only gods of ancient cultures, and a few entities in the lower planes with heavy vibration, strict militant orderliness in their social structure and extremely chaotic physical environment, "demon" is a nonsense word.

If an entire culture can't agree on what a word means without placing it into a religious context, and even when doing so, still can't agree, then that word is useless.

Demon is such a word. A nymph can be a demon. A moon sprite. A human. An ifrit. Apparently any being that feeds on sexual energy is a demon. Pretty much anything that isn't Jhvh or one of his slaves is a demon.

By that definition, vampires, nymphos, ubi, most fae, and even dragons and hippogryphs are demons. If you have a binding of an immortal who isn't Jhvh, congratulations, you're keeping a "demon."

Really... that's just silly.

Raven, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. If not, I frankly disagree with you. "Demon" is a word that defines a race or group of races that have an energy unique to them. They are as real as fae or dragons. IN NO WAY am I ever suggesting that they are purely Christian based in origin, nor have anything to do with it, and no matter how much someone despises how the term has been abuse, it doesn't exclude the fact that it exists, and describes an amazing and complex group of beings as those we've both worked with.

By the way, demon is NOT a religious term and has been used for millennia before Christianity rose to power. It describes beings as being wise and divine in essence, and was not used in negative context until after Christianity rose to power.

Demons are demons, and they are a beautiful race of beings that certainly do exist. The name isn't bad or a stupid word.

Kit, I have to admit reading your misunderstanding of my post got my stomach all tied up in knots.

I didn't misunderstand what you were saying - I was furthering it.

As you say, the problem with labeling any of the Ubi as demonic is that Ubi refers to a sexual feeder entity - it is NOT species specific.

Demon, also, is not species specific. It, too, is an incredibly generic word.

The origin of the word is mostly agreed to be from 3rd BCE Greek, the word dAEmon (die-mon). That word was, by the 13th CE, butchered into an anglicized word: demon. However, the original word referred to natural spirits - spirits of the tree and flower, river and sea, spirits of the dead, the sun, the moon - it was, not unlike the Gaelic word Sidhe, a catchall for any invisible entity of power and some form of intelligence, which could be crossed or propitiated.

The fact that the church took that word and turned it into what we have today - a word that most people take to be referring to anything heavy, dark, evil, of malicious intent, from lower realms, dangerous, untrustworthy, and usually bearing ram's horns, goat's hooves, and a forked tail (all remnants of both Celtic and Grecian nature deities), a word we now use to refer to entities from the Middle East who, prior to multiple conquers, were gods of their rightful peoples - is unfortunate, but also inaccurate.

I do work with lower realm entities. They do accept the appellation "demon" - as one said to me, "It will do." With most of the entities I work with, to them, any human word will do. We could call them wardrobe and they would just shrug. Our names don't matter to them. With the "demons," I often get the feeling that they take the word with a deep sense of humour - their own private joke at us. Honestly, I kind of agree... it's quite funny to call them "demons," when they're anything but.

That's the problem with human words. We load all kinds of media (like data, media is the plural form of a word borrowed directly from Latin. The singular, medium, early developed the meaning “an intervening agency, means, or instrument” and was first applied to newspapers two centuries ago. In the 1920s media began to appear as a singular collective noun, sometimes with the plural medias. This singular use is now common) into our words - and often, as layers are piled on, the original meaning is lost in the noise.

Everyone thinks they know what the word "demon" means - even we, who work with beings that bear the human-made label think we know, though what we think is substantially different to most outsiders - but that doesn't change the fact that the knowledge of what "demon" means has changed, significantly, from its origins - and will most likely change again and again as time and language move.

Words are not static things. Ideas are not static, either.

To say what "demon" means, to say that anything is a "demon" or not a "demon" is to declare that only your blue is sky blue, only your green is grass green. Considering everyone has different eyes and different experiences and different senses - we all know that while we all agree that grass IS green, none of us are ever sure that the green WE see is the same green ANYone else sees.

It's the same with the word "demon," so when I see people saying the Ubi are demon, I have to speak up... because clearly, they need to be educated a little about their own language.

I was not speaking to people who actually work with lower plane entities, because we're all in on the joke.

-Raven