'Death of a Chaos Magician'

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brolasta
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Given the title I was expecting to find JV turning towards a more post chaos view.

To the chaote it doesn't really matter Caiyros, the mental gymnastics are unmatched to say the least given that "nothing is true, everything is permited" because everything is mind thus everything is psychological so that automatically makes me god proving my solopistic "meta paradigm" valid, let's bring chaos to this mundane world because this world is dull and unmagical now that I am really free from all dogma.

Indeed the papers in the attic blog has throughly researched the necronomicon to attest the qlipothic connection of it which gets me wondering if working with the summerian deities would eventually lead to the empty shells.


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Caiyros Neptunias 1 wrote:I am not impressed: The Forum Minority Report.

1. The Necronomicon is a hodgepodge of "pickings" from "The Black Box" and The Necronomicon is an astral mess that deals with "THe Shells" within the Qlipphoth section of The Qabalah.

2. Austin Osmon Spare, was a brilliant man who talked about aspects of the defined word Chaos as through Greek Mythos, and basically (and happily) took his que from William Blake's 2 books: The Marriage of Heaven & Hell; and, also, The Book of Urizen. And was also involved with 777 by Aleister Crowley and Allan Bennett; also, I would be surprised if he read G.R.S.Mead's Thrice Greatest Hermes; and Herbert Silberer's Alchemy.

3. Nothing has been said here about primordial language, i.e. "superstrings" are now seen in science as the sub-atomic building blocks of life, an sveral of us have actually seen these "supstrings thru the use of Ayuhuasca, and have recognized that these superstrings are totally conscious, and the force that created (over time) All written or scripted languages - sound being controlled by sight.

4. The Chaos Magicians to a large degree have shown no interest in going behind chaos as a shidel for living in a somewhat dangerous universe. And because of this have absolutely no knowledge of the highest level of tantra (Anutarayoga Tantra) and "Beyond Tantra" with the Ati Practices. Thus The do not see the concept nor the reality of Vajrabhairava The Lord of - The Lord of Death - In other words, a Concious being above Death. Nor have they looked into the real world of Alchemy.

5. Chaos as a meaningful concept is simply a word or two that says all is random and even that is not true...To me personally, Chaos as talked about here and other places, is simply a way to walk away from scrutiny, planning, and actually having little interest in Astrophysics that does indeed show and demonstrate order.

6. Chaos Magick is a hodgepodge mixture of some Grimoire Attitudes and Practices mixed with a repressed desire to destroy culture or denigrate what is going on in culture, and is the latest version of Nihilism. And I feel that CHaos Magick's slogan s/b "Nothing Matters Unless I Say So, Ugliness is Cool, Beauty is Ugliness or if not it is not enough ugly to be considered Beauty. And the Concept of Death is Ever Present

7. People have a right to believe this sort of nihilistic word play, but where does it lead? What happiness does it create? What power does it give us? And I do wonder why death and its relationships is so much a part of the Chaos Practicioner's daily life. Every new book I have read on the topic is intellectual, but without any mention of "lasting joy". If my only choice was to be either Sid Vicious or Lenny Bruce.....I would pick Lenny - He was a nice friendly guy and very funny. Whether true or not, it appears (and appearances are important & powerful) that within the ranks of Current Chaos thinking, there is no Compassion.

Envoi: Thre is much suffering in the world. To me it makes no sense to worship the Suffering Itself - Whether that of Jesus or that of the many ordinary people on the street, or the forces that do create suffering.

The Peanut Gallery has spoken,
Caiyros
Speaking as someone who is largely brand-new to the terminology of Chaos Magick, but not to some of its basic precepts, I appreciate seeing resources that I can use to get a handle on what others have written on the topic. I have tons of concepts in my mind, and actions/events in my experience, but not many words to describe them. At least, not many words that others might recognize, lol. If I can get my vocabulary on board with the dialect that everyone else is using for these things, I'll be glad.

But I do have to say, I've managed to explore a region of this topic (before I knew it was a topic that others also pursue) that doesn't involve elevating Ugliness into Beauty, or rejecting Beauty as frivolous or useless. I realize that not everything is Cute or Pretty or Funny, or even Logical (at least, not by any version of logic that can wrap my brain around, lol). But I'm not prone to revel in the harsh, the brutal, the warped, the spiteful, etc. I acknowledge that those jarring things coexist alongside all the pleasant things in the universe, but I can't bear to spend unending effort focusing on just the jarring side of the coin. A person can acknowledge Chaos and the Void, and also turn attention to trying to add to the amount of uplifting things in the universe. :)

But that's my own take on things. I know my assessment of the multiverse is like no one else's, and I"m used to leaving people scratching their heads when I start to go on about it. So I hope I've put this forth in a dialect of English that makes some form of sense to anyone other than me. ;)


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Honestly I think Caiyros just likes to berate my posts for personal reasons, seeing as there is always a negative slant to his commentary.
That's okay, I'm entitled to ignore attitudes which are not really conducive to learning.

I posted this for those open to seeing more about the concept of chaos magick, as I think it's a quality article.. and am glad that people are interested, enjoyed the read and can resonate in their own way. I will be posting more.

Cheers~


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Noctifera wrote:Glad you guys enjoyed the article, it was a nice find.
A lot of people still don't really get what Chaos Magick is or where it came from. I have more quality reads I may be posting in the near future.
I personally look forward to your reads, Noc... always glad to hear you speak of anything Chaos related..


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Likes2Read Chaos magick was my starting point, hang around chaotes long enough and you'll perfectly see what Caiyros means. Of course I'm generalizing but it is the norm.


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Noctifera wrote:Honestly I think Caiyros just likes to berate my posts for personal reasons, seeing as there is always a negative slant to his commentary.
That's okay, I'm entitled to ignore attitudes which are not really conducive to learning.
And I applaud you for ignoring it... but this is once again an example of it going on without any repercussions... the forum mods turn a blind eye...SAD


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While criticism will abound for anything and if educated can make for intelligent discourse, what Caiyros states specifically regarding 'Chaos Magick' or what one may refer similarly, is blatantly incorrect and one of volatility - 'ugliness' is emphasized - which is not something the average magician concerns themself with at all. It's nothing about 'ugliness'.

While his commentary on 'chaos magicians' is irrelevant - given it's a matter of one's personal individual choice what they wish to acknowledge in their path, one's mentality regarding the universe is not 'more correct' than another, and a sweeping assumption regarding a chaos magician's understanding of Chaos is just that - an assumption. Almost purposely offensive rather than thought out.

No two chaos magicians, or those who happen to practice magick or carry a mindset in this manner, are alike. Especially so. There may be stereotypes out there who behave a certain way, but I'm unaware of even they harboring the kind of mindlessness implied here. And this can actually, probably be said for any sort of magician or path or whathaveyou.

Therefore but one perception, and as I observe based unfortunately on personal sensitivities with previous misunderstandings. This is a diverse forum and I would think if you only seek to degrade one's lifestyle, and go into discussions without an open mind, you're in the wrong place.

If my personal interests or focuses are perceived as ugly, whatever.. but generalization is utterly pointless when it comes to chaos, and negative generalizations are rude and simple-minded.

I am really tired of my threads being taken as trigger for argument, it's an educational post/interesting article and that is all. If anyone wishes to engage in a fierce debate (or spout off about how stupid they believe something to be) they should make their own thread in a more appropriate section (I suggest 'Vent'). Which I have no desire of participating in and is totally, all you.

This I felt to be an important clarification on the subject, and will be the last I say in regards to that.


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Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder then, even if it's Dadaism or noise music as actual music itself although noise generators without any sort of signal processing has a particular effect on the psyche...


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brolasta wrote:Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder
That's exactly true.

And actually, reflects simply why it's not a point of beauty nor ugliness, in the case of chaos magick.


The concepts of good and bad or disgust and pleasure or beauty and horror dichotomies, is beyond this.. and the paradigms really being criticized - a niche preoccupation dependent on personal taste that in itself varies by perception, so another subject entirely. One certainly prone to the realm of opinion whether passive or militant.. and as I feel, needless micro-microcosmic scrutiny. Lol..

But then we might ask, why so serious?

I meant to comment before, in regards to the article originally posted.. what I find most interesting is the particular perspective this blogger comes from, indicating a previously significant mainstream-religious exposure before being overtaken by the concepts that lie within 'chaos magick' and it's effect on the psyche, spirit.

I do recognize as familiar as it is of the occult in our modern age, and for some who are just inclined to the mentality, it is still in a sense 'taboo'.. something of a radical undertaking or shock to absorb for those predisposed to more dogmatic ideals. Or a singularity of them anyway.
On the other hand I can see a benefit in coming from that sort of background, in making chaos magick work for you later on - as we know the power of will and belief plays as strong a role in any framework..


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Noctifera wrote:Honestly I think Caiyros just likes to berate my posts for personal reasons, seeing as there is always a negative slant to his commentary.
That's okay, I'm entitled to ignore attitudes which are not really conducive to learning.

I posted this for those open to seeing more about the concept of chaos magick, as I think it's a quality article.. and am glad that people are interested, enjoyed the read and can resonate in their own way. I will be posting more.

Cheers~
you are entirely wrong about me. I am not berating you at any point and I am not promoting you either. This is a forum, and when intrelligent people like yourself enter a genuine forum....as Socrates demonstrated....its not the warm and cuddly world, nor is it nasty either. Since you are intelligent, its time to intellectually deal with concepts that you not only have worked on yourself or come to agree with, but concepts in part or in whole , that are partially or completely foreign to you, or that for some reason have been ignored. I make an effort to talk to people on the level of thought they are able to understand, and on the CH Forum there is NO ONE who is stupid and among all us intelligent folks here, there is not one of us who is always right, nor that knows everything in the universe.

Here's an example, you are selling an item related to the Marquis de Sade - All well and good - De Sade has fascinated me every since the words of Simone de Beauvoir rattled through my 17 year old head....

And, you might be interested in doing a little research on Charles Alexis Brulart, Comte de Genlis, Marquis de Sillery (now there's a name for you)....He was an older friend of Donetian Alphonse Marquis de Sade....I just gave you some information that you realy might find iteresting - It is not an attack.

As for Chaos, by its nature it leads nowhere, and yet the paradox is that there are many nowheres that neither exist nor don't exist, and so on.....I am trying to demonstrate that Chaos IS a concealed-from-the-user form - a "ranked down" form in fully narrow grey or dark arts....what is in fact a much bigger and more complex Omniverse System, the information about - is easily accessible throuh Tibetan & Hindu Tantra and Pre-Christian Gnosticism, the Neo-Platonic Mystics, and the Princeton Heavyweights, such as John Forbes Nash and the Superstring Guys....

I am not bird-doging you, I am telling you....yes "telling" - that you have a much more exiting and rewarding and powerful world for yourself through a full-scale expansion of the subject, and frankly I have given you a box-load of tools, that you can either ignore or use as you wish.

Speaking of myself - alone- and nobody else - I don't compete at all, ever. I do believe and follow the idea of endless learning (see Magister Ludi by Hesse) and to quote the great Will Rogers, I try to follow his statement that "Its easier to ride the horse in the direction that it's going..."

Its like opening the Pandora's Box of Knowledge, there is no end to it - How Exciting!

As for "Ego" - I ran with one of the largest fastest groups of Very FAst Living - and like a bunch of us, we split the scene...What people call "Ego" or "Egotism" is actually a"Defective Ego" - and my group and myself, amazingly 90% of us learned that - all at the same time - January 1970.

Finally, there is no hostility while that is true, also there is a need for Argument, Learning, & Careful Experiment. Prediction: (As this is true for all of Us) - think you fully appreciate some of these evnts and things as Saturn makes its complete circle within your own progressed chart...

Cheers,
Caiyros

PS Actually this is very parallel to an ongoing argument of Stephan Hawking and Leonard Susskind in The Black Hole War......I am on the side of Susskind....LOL


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