Yes I know of Papa Legba....he who gaurds the gates

Hello:)

Toadstool, you and your husband have a vast knowledge in Islamic teaching about djinn!! Wow:D

From the idea that the world has already many apocalypse before us now, it is suggested that there were many races before Adam and Eve were created, not just djinn.The references are as follows:

Ibn Kathir said in al-Bidayah wa’n-Nihayah, "Many scholars of tafseer say that the jinn were created before Adam (peace be upon him), and before them on Earth there were the hinn and the binn, then Allah caused the jinn to prevail over them, so they killed them and expelled them from the earth and inhabited it after them."

Al-‘Allamah at-Tahir ibn ‘Ashoor said in at-Tahreer wa’t-Tanweer, "If it is true that the earth was inhabited before by a race of creatures called al-hinn wa’l-binn or, it was said, they were called at-tamm wa’r-ramm, this is a reference to something that never existed and is unknown. Perhaps these are among the myths of the Persians and Greeks propagated by the storytellers, because the Persians say that before mankind existed on earth, there was a race called at-tamm wa’r-ramm, and the Greeks believed that the earth was populated by creatures called Titans, and Zeus, the leader of their gods according to their beliefs, drove them from the earth because of their evildoing."

I'd like to offer some possible addition to that topic, although it's not a popular one; it is just what some Islamic paranormal in Malayia and Indonesia believes. My Sufi friend also told me to took it with a grain of salt:) This is because there are varied stories about it.

So, the first known race is named Polyp (or Polippa or Poppy). Some said this race is like human but with wings. Others said this race have many legs. These race consisted of sub-races called Hinn, Binn, Tam, and Ram. After their destruction, the second one is the Djinn. After the Djinn, there were Bashar, consisted of Atalan and Lamarakh. Some said they were the prehistoric/neanderthal men, while other consider that they're just like human and are the origin of the Atlantis and Lemuria story.

Then, from each apocalypse, all believers from each race were elevated to heaven, while the disbelievers were destroyed. In the age of Bashar on earth, God planned to make a new race (human) and elevated them more than the rest. This was heard by the one later called Iblis, and discussed the matter with other races. So agreeing that they were not satisfied, when God introduced Adam and told all of them to prostrate to him, those who weren't satisfied did not. Thus the ones who fell from heaven were not angel but other races.

Once again, this is just one story, not generally recognized but accepted as possible history by some people. I can give some links for reference, but they're mostly in Malay language, and some in Indonesian:l

toadstools wrote:Some "Scholars" say he was Djinn. The quran clearly points out he was Angel:

Of course, the argument could be made that the Angels lack the gift of free will, and are therefore incapable of disobedience

Thank you Toadstools interesting piece on the Djinn there is so much info on here [emoji4]


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Dragonoake wrote:

toadstools wrote:Some "Scholars" say he was Djinn. The quran clearly points out he was Angel:

Of course, the argument could be made that the Angels lack the gift of free will, and are therefore incapable of disobedience

I don't think angels lack the gift of free will at all. if we look at the fallen angels they chose to fall from heaven and follow satan. He chose to rebel. The angels that saw human women and chose to mate with them had free will too. and in the bible they are clearly angels. So I don't think they lack free will at all. Even with the quran stating he was angel, that also says they have free will.

They chose the path they followed. What about the angels that choose to be bound to something we have? They choose it, they are not forced.

I find it funny they use the term prostate as it could be interpreted literally or not depending on your mood. I think also it gets lost in language. Like for instance since we don't have an equivalent in Vietnamese for the word djinn, we use a term that means powerful or high ranking spirit. You therefore can be an angel high ranking spirit or a demon high ranking spirit. But it is more or less the same. Angel or demon describes one's nature. So he very well could be in the same class of spirits. Though by going on his own he is viewed as a God for some.

I dunno, it is so much more interesting when people don't play by someone else's rule. I'm sure the creator could have ended it, but decided this would be cool to watch what happens.

I am curious did the quran have any mention of demons? Always made me wonder if the true American equivalent to djinn is demon.

*lurking in the background, thinking that 'God' was being a jerk to the Djinn, and wondering about 'The Book Of Smokeless Fire'.

Hello Samsara:)

Samsara wrote: I am curious did the quran have any mention of demons? Always made me wonder if the true American equivalent to djinn is demon.

I have to say that I couldn't find any mention of demon in Quran. I have compared Quran and Bible before and discussed it with my devout Catholic friend as well as the Sufi one, and while there are some similarities, such as Gog and Magog equal to Yajuj and Majuj, but fallen angel and demon are not in Quran, vice versa djinn is not in Bible. Although, in the Arabic translation for Bible, demon sometimes is translated as "djinn":l I think due to the djinn's dual nature, i.e. DA, it is not exactly right to analogize them with Christian demon who usually are portraited as BA in Bible...

But maybe Toadstool has more info about this:)

kyunkyunkyu wrote:Hello Samsara:)

Samsara wrote: I am curious did the quran have any mention of demons? Always made me wonder if the true American equivalent to djinn is demon.

I have to say that I couldn't find any mention of demon in Quran. I have compared Quran and Bible before and discussed it with my devout Catholic friend as well as the Sufi one, and while there are some similarities, such as Gog and Magog equal to Yajuj and Majuj, but fallen angel and demon are not in Quran, vice versa djinn is not in Bible. Although, in the Arabic translation for Bible, demon sometimes is translated as "djinn":l I think due to the djinn's dual nature, i.e. DA, it is not exactly right to analogize them with Christian demon who usually are portraited as BA in Bible...

But maybe Toadstool has more info about this:)

Seriously though, what does the average Christian know about demons anyways. Other than these kinds of forum not many people make the distinction from BA and DA. I've seen djinn exorcisms and it's scarey as heck. Not to be messed around with.

Samsara wrote: Seriously though, what does the average Christian know about demons anyways. Other than these kinds of forum not many people make the distinction from BA and DA. I've seen djinn exorcisms and it's scarey as heck. Not to be messed around with.

Umm that's difficult to answer. Maybe they know as much as what average Muslim know about djinn?:)

For exorcism, I remember Spiritkitten said her aunt can attract and banish djinn with certain words, because of her family bloodline:) While there are rarely severe case of possession in Indonesia, the not-so-severe ones are quite popular, usually because they learn some magick or ilmu that involve non-believer djinn. With a type of exorcism method called ruqyah, the ulamas conduct mass-exorcism for several people who are possessed in the mosque. The requirement is that they do want to be exorcised and return to "the right way". I guess you can find some examples in youtube, but maybe they're not as scary as the one you've seen before; some even look kinda funny:)