I have a question about "believer" djinn. Since Islam only started in like the 700 AD time frame...What did they believe in before then? Am i missing something here or did Islam somehow always exist?

I mean many tales talk of King Solomon's Djinn, roughly 1,500 before Islam...So what did they believe? I know not all Djinn are associated with Islam, but how did a man-made religion come to separate Djinn into "believer" and "non believer"?

1ey

WhimsicalSage wrote:I have a question about "believer" djinn. Since Islam only started in like the 700 AD time frame...What did they believe in before then? Am i missing something here or did Islam somehow always exist?

I mean many tales talk of King Solomon's Djinn, roughly 1,500 before Islam...So what did they believe? I know not all Djinn are associated with Islam, but how did a man-made religion come to separate Djinn into "believer" and "non believer"?

In Islam, when Allah, made the Angels, he made the Djinn from a smokeless fire. In Islamic theology jinn are said to be creatures with free will, made from smokeless fire by Allah as humans were made of clay, among other things.

According to the Quran, jinn have free will, and Iblīs abused this freedom in front of Allah by refusing to bow to Adam when Allah ordered angels and jinn to do so. For disobeying Allah, Iblīs was expelled from Paradise and called "Shaytān" (Satan). Jinn are frequently mentioned in the Quran: Surah 72 (named Sūrat al-Jinn) is named after the jinn, and has a passage about them. Another surah (Sūrat al-Nās) mentions jinn in the last verse. The Qurʾan also mentions that Muhammad was sent as a prophet to both "humanity and the jinn", and that prophets and messengers were sent to both communities.

The Djinn were made long before humans and when humans were made, Ibilis (satan) refused to bow down to serve him because he was arrogant, he was made from a smokeless fire and humans only clay. (dirt). So you see, the religion did not seperate them. Ibilis did LONG before Islam came along.

No islam did not always exist but the Djinn did, as i said they were made when the angels were made. Long before humans. They the Beleiver djinn have always beleived in the oneness of Allah. from the beginning of time before humans came along.

They were seperated when Ibilis refused to do as asked, they became the "Unbeleiver" IE: They chose, as the fallen angel, to go their own way. The "Beleiver" Djinn still worship Allah as from the beginning of time, and try to help man when they can. The "Unbeleiver" don't, they try to do damage and steer man away from Allah, GOD, however you choose.

I hope that made sense. My husband explained it to me a long time ago and I tried to remember half of it hahaha

The Djinn are in all religions, just called by different names. but they existed long before man did.

Thanks for that interesting reply Toadstools 1ak
Very informative. 1rd

Thanks for the reply toadstools.

I can understand that. But i see posts saying that these Djinn follow the Qur'an and such but, i can understand them following some of the more universal concepts like belief in Allah, but why would they care about some of these newer concepts that came from the founding of Islam. Are they really all that religious?

The beleiving Djinn are just like every other religious person. Some are zealots, some are moderate. Let me see if I can explain it this way. It's a Jim Jones syndrome. You know who he was right? That idiot that killed all those people? Well, when the Djinn heard the Quran, some beleived, some did not. Just like in the beginning of time, humans, Adam beleived in GOD, but over time, according to the bible, they fell away. The Djinn are similar to us in this concept. SO, when the Quran came along, some beleived and went back to the original beleifs, some did not. Some became the Djinn version of Jim Jones.

The Jinn are beings created with free will, living on earth in a world parallel to mankind. The Arabic word Jinn is from the verb ‘Janna’ which means to hide or conceal. Thus, they are physically invisible from man as their description suggests. This invisibility is one of the reasons why some people have denied their existence. You know humans, if I can't see it, smell it or touch it, it aint' there? Humans are arrogant in that respect.

Jinns can thus be Muslims or non-Muslims. However, due to their fiery nature the majority of them are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Jinns form a part of the army of the most famous Jinn, Satan. Some, take the belief into the jim jones effect

toadstools wrote:The beleiving Djinn are just like every other religious person. Some are zealots, some are moderate. Let me see if I can explain it this way. It's a Jim Jones syndrome. You know who he was right? That idiot that killed all those people? Well, when the Djinn heard the Quran, some beleived, some did not. Just like in the beginning of time, humans, Adam beleived in GOD, but over time, according to the bible, they fell away. The Djinn are similar to us in this concept. SO, when the Quran came along, some beleived and went back to the original beleifs, some did not. Some became the Djinn version of Jim Jones.

The Jinn are beings created with free will, living on earth in a world parallel to mankind. The Arabic word Jinn is from the verb ‘Janna’ which means to hide or conceal. Thus, they are physically invisible from man as their description suggests. This invisibility is one of the reasons why some people have denied their existence. You know humans, if I can't see it, smell it or touch it, it aint' there? Humans are arrogant in that respect.

Jinns can thus be Muslims or non-Muslims. However, due to their fiery nature the majority of them are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Jinns form a part of the army of the most famous Jinn, Satan. Some, take the belief into the jim jones effect

Ok, thanks for helping clarify some of that!

Hi Toadstools......

Now....this is getting very interesting!!!!!

Are you saying that the "classic" Satan is in fact a Djinn???
I have never heard this before....please keep elucidating on this topic......it's fascinating

Izzy69 wrote:Hi Toadstools......

Now....this is getting very interesting!!!!!

Are you saying that the "classic" Satan is in fact a Djinn???
I have never heard this before....please keep elucidating on this topic......it's fascinating

Some "Scholars" say he was Djinn. The quran clearly points out he was Angel:

The Quran, in many citations, portrays Satan or Iblis as an angel:

And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam." And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah). S. 2:34

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together. Except Iblis (Satan), - he refused to be among the prostrators. S. 15:28-31

And (remember) when We said to the angels "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." They prostrated (all) except Iblis (Satan), who refused. S. 20:116

(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels "Truly, I am going to create man from clay". So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan) he was proud and was one of the disbelievers. S. 38:71-74

Yet the Quran introduces a discrepancy by identifying Iblis as a jinn:

And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimun (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc). S. 18:50

Thus, this either means that:

Satan is an angel and therefore not a jinn.
Or he is a jinn and therefore not an angel, which makes Allah unjust for blaming him for not obeying a command given to the angels and not to the jinn.
Or the jinn are angels which introduces another contradiction

Aware of the foregoing dilemma Muslims have come up with some convenient and/or intriguing explanations. For instance, one Muslim translator distorted the text of S. 18:50 in order to make it say that Iblis became a jinn, not that he was a jinn:

We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan. He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord. Will you choose him and his descendants as lords instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? What a miserable substitute! Rashad Khalifa

Scholars can't seem to agree if he was an angel or a djinn or in fact the djinn are a race of angels, kind of like the human races are different but all humans .

Still others claim that jinn are actually a class of angels created to guard paradise. Renowned Sunni exegete and historian al-Tabari wrote:

According to al-Qasim b. al-Hasan- al-Husayn b. Dawud- Hajjaj- Ibn Jurayj- Ibn `Abbas: Iblis was one of the most noblest angels and belonged to the most honored tribe among them. He was a keeper of Paradise. He had authority to rule over the lower heaven as well as earth.

Case in point. According to Musa b. Harun al-Hamdani- `Amr b. Hammad- Asbat- al-Suddi- Abu Malik and Abu Salih- Ibn `Abbas. Also (al-Suddi)- Murrah al-Hamdani- Ibn Mas'ud and some (other) companions of the Prophet: Iblis was ruler over the lower heaven. He belonged to a tribe of angels called jinn. They were called jinn because they were keepers of Paradise (al-jannah). In addition to being ruler, Iblis was a keeper (of Paradise).


quite powerful was he not?

Thanks very much for that Toadstools!!!!

One thing is for sure....there will always be contradiction in scriptures!!!
And, it is human nature to change in translation according to the current times.
An example of this is that Jesus mentioned reincarnation a few times but around 400 years later that was not politically or socially convenient to the leaders of the day so it was omitted from the official texts.
From then on we have the classic mind control of we only have one life "but the poor shall have their reward in heaven"!!!!!! This was used to stop social revolutions among the exploited and oppressed in society. They would put up with the gross imbalance of this life as they were looking forward to their spiritual "reward" later.
One local ruler whose name I cannot recall now was apparantly quoted as saying to his serfs:
"Poor us for being rich!!! You are guaranteed entry to heaven but I am not"!!!! LOL

BTW, great reading your other thread about your travels in Tunisia and New orleans to learn more about conjuring from the masters

There was this one gentleman in New Orleans, he called himself "papa Legba" if you know voodoo you know who that is. He dressed like the legends say Papa Legba does! He scared the sheit out of me the first time I met him. BUT he taught me how to speak to Djinn like a boss lol. He taught me how to petition the real papa legba to gain access to the others. He taught me how to cook Gumbo that was my most cherished lesson hahaha.

But back on topic, yes, the catholic church changed the bible to suit their purposes. and no doubt jews, muslims and all the rest have done the same.