darkwing wrote: A very nice explanation:)
And it's in line with my hypothesis that the deities/immortals of the old influence the modern fiction such as novel, comic books, etc. But not sure whether we call them do so, or it's their initiative to embed themselves in the modern world..

Oh I agree there's a lot of influence, whether it's intentional on the author's part or not.
In fact it's great to see the "old stories" recycled again and again so they are never totally lost.

I asked MM where the Cheshires come from and here is the answer:
"The Cheshires come from a demiplane (one right over ours) and are a type of cat that exist normally on that plane."

At any rate, V seems like he'll be a really fun spirit.

Im expecting a bandersnatch any day now. 1s I am interested 2 c how this thred develops.

Well, in the story the Cheshire Cat is specifically a cat who can disappear at will or leaving only parts of itself visible. I am actually resistant to the idea that Lewis Carroll "lifted" the character from an existing cat shaped entity or was subconsciously inspired by said entity (I do understand that Noctifera was not implying through her theory that Carroll was a plagiarizer). I would like to give Carroll more credit as a talented writer with the ability to truly create ideas out of the blue. That's why I raise my eyebrows when I see listings of Bandersnatch and Jabberwocky bindings...

It is not an easy concept to grasp. I have read about the theories before that characters and worlds depicted in popular literature already exist in a different universe, and I like to think fondly that Luffy and his Straw Hat crew are happily cruising the Grand Line at this moment in a real world. But I still would like to believe that we as humans have the same divine spark that allowed creation to come into being. Taking Kelis and his Alpha servitors for example, would you say they are completely original beings created from scratch by Kelis or are they are also linked to some preexisting counterparts in another universe?

Inanna wrote:It is not an easy concept to grasp. I have read about the theories before that characters and worlds depicted in popular literature already exist in a different universe, and I like to think fondly that Luffy and his Straw Hat crew are happily cruising the Grand Line at this moment in a real world. But I still would like to believe that we as humans have the same divine spark that allowed creation to come into being. Taking Kelis and his Alpha servitors for example, would you say they are completely original beings created from scratch by Kelis or are they are also linked to some preexisting counterparts in another universe?

The idea that we do not actually create ideas out of nowhere as humans is a distinct concept for consideration and I don't mean to tie it so intimately to everything else I wrote about, it plays into my explanation and is interesting to me which is why I included it.

I think your alpha example is like any example that can be made for original ideas, I have no experience whatsoever with his work but I understand your concern over the topic. I am not saying that we do not have unique minds as human beings - it would be more appropriate to say we 'translate' incoming energies and prior connections. As stated in my last post, 'It doesn't make creation or inspiration nonexistent, it just needs to be looked at differently'. It takes an evolved perception to comprehend how we are creators within an ongoing cycle of creation..

Our imaginations are derived from a background, a personality, and many different influences upon us.. none of our thoughts are created from our heads, but from a bunch of stimuli that is translated through our minds. Maybe that makes my comment clearer. We are each divine vessels, channelers, of energies into interesting forms. Inspiration is vital to an artist, and to be inspired means for that 'spark' and that 'spark' is built of many incomprehensible and some very consciously understood components.. it does not come out of thin air, it comes from somewhere, it harnesses an energy and energy is generated from energy, new matter is generated from matter, everything that is created comes from somewhere else. Our minds are generators this way.

Beyond this we have to take it on a case by case basis, I know that the Cheshire Cat exists as a being in many facets of reality, from that access and experience I have had - but not all manifestations of energy are (and manifestation or facet, or face of an essence is the key here). I did distinguish previously that thoughtforms are their own thing and why they are different from what I personally am explaining, and a thoughtform of a very specific manifestation of energy can exist parallel of many other manifestations of the energy. A thoughtform is the closest thing to our own pure translation/creation, generally speaking.

I cannot speak on another's method of creation of a being or how they may think it exists, to what extent, etc but the artist's explanation of where their work comes from is paramount. Relevance is relative.

I stand by everything I've stated and I know it isn't the easiest to understand, like I have said it's something that really needs to be experienced directly to be understood the way I do. I have spent several years cultivating my experience and knowledge on this subject and can only relay what I know, and where my own work comes from. When I work with the Cheshire Cat's energy I work with the Cheshire Cat's core of energy and the core is not something that any of us have made to be how it is, but Lewis Carroll is certainly eternally and irrevocably linked to it's force.

I am close with Lewis Carroll in spirit and I don't want to be giving the impression that he isn't a powerful and unique person, I am an artist and have the utmost respect for artists of all kinds.. but the truth is not as simple as being alone in our creations. There is more to the operations of life and creation than a mind deciding upon something.
As creators we are gods, all gods are given life, life comes from beyond the gods that we are and those god-forces that brought us into being.. it's not easily comprehensible and it really isn't important day to day to our considerations. That isn't a bad thing - it doesn't take away from our uniqueness, but I see how it can be startling or difficult to digest.

Anyway that's the last I will be saying on this subject as I really don't want to draw the thread more off course. I hope I have sufficiently explained where I am coming from, it should be a source of fascination not confusion or revulsion lol.

Reading this thread has really got my mind working overtime, but I like the way it's working! It's got me to the point of "creations create the creator--" almost like the Bootstrap paradox when you're thinking of time travel. Someone goes back in time to meet a famous creator, finds they aren't there/accidentally kills them/whatever, and has to become that famous creator in order for the creation to exist. The creation creates the creator. Here, it's a step further: the creation needs to be born, and it finds the vessel through which to be created, and shapes the creator into the proper form, the proper mind, in order to take shape.

I may be totally off course, but I like the idea nonetheless. It resonates with me as a creative person, myself; I feel, a lot of times, like my best work is not work that is entirely generated From Me, but From Elsewhere. It was born Out There and came through me--but that doesn't make Me any less important in the process!

Back on topic: there are, in the infinite multiverse, no doubt an infinite number of entities who are like the Cheshire Cat. Who is there to doubt that there is, like in Plato's theory, a Cheshire Cat that is the Most Cheshire Cat out of all Cheshire Cats? And who is to say that the others, while being Less Cheshire, are not still Cheshire? Either way, very interesting that you (and others, in many different ways) got to tap into and connect with such a unique and interesting energy! I hope that bond brings you lots of joy!

I awoke from an unanticipated slumber floating in between states of consciousness, states of restless awareness, I reached for my phone and scrolled through this thread until the blaring light became too much for my sleepy eyes to bare. I fell back into the softness of my pillows so sweet, and stared up in the darkness at the ceiling to see... a smile of madness peering back down at me. For there was a sliver of light funneling in through the crescent grin shape of the window, situated directly beneath two round, pupil shaped eyes of the ceiling fan. Why hello Mr. Cheshire, I appreciate you watching as I sleep..

How these 'rhythms' play out and manifest within our reality reaches far beyond the likes of entertainment and to view them as confined to such is equivalent to viewing yourself as 'only' this body, naturally when your perception of the beyond expands so too does your understanding of these constituents and their reach within our current level of existence as well as all throughout the greater whole. They are currents, riding the brainwaves of the cosmos, elements that just can't help but to seep through into our awareness.. In many ways they compose us, in many ways we compose them.. you see that's the fun, we'll never know where it starts nor reach into where it ends, it's all a carousel where the mind forever spins.

Dance in abandon of all theories, wash away your hopeless binds, greet the world suspended in wonder and who knows what you shall find.. to be open to the madness is to open up your eye... to fall into tunnels of whimsy, growing with a bite, an 'eat me' of the senses, a 'drink me' of the mind..

Morphing into that which no longer fits through the doors of comprehension.. tis the way of the mystic, tis the way of the mad.