Once again, please don't throw away your money. I wish the world could have more magic in it, too, but it doesn't change the facts. It doesn't matter how much money you have - you can't buy something from a person who doesn't have it.

It's different with Spirits. Ideas have been known to take on a life of their own. Writers really hear the voices of their characters. As long as the price is low enough - less than the cost of going out to eat - I am perfectly willing to buy in.

Inedible wrote: As long as the price is low enough - less than the cost of going out to eat - I am perfectly willing to buy in.

Are you talking about going out to eat to McDonalds or going out to eat at a fancy shmancy restaurant where you have to book a seat half a year in advance?

Even McDonalds is getting to be expensive now. I think $15 is about the most I would pay for a Spirit.

Inedible wrote:Even McDonalds is getting to be expensive now. I think $15 is about the most I would pay for a Spirit.

So basically minimum wage for something that might take a lot of hours for some to do, including depending on their methods items that are consumed.
Which makes it much less than minimum wage, much much less.

Well, if you pay for a Burger you can hardly expect to get a prime Argentinian steak, but you're probably aware of that.

What do you mean? All I'm getting is like 2 lines of text and then I have to do all the work: I have to use my imagination to make it real. Seriously, $15 is a huge markup.

As for beef, I prefer the cheap stuff. I don't like expensive meat because it tastes too much like steak. Even minute steak, also known as cube steak. I have always hated steak. I like cheap fast food burgers.

Inedible wrote:What do you mean? All I'm getting is like 2 lines of text and then I have to do all the work: I have to use my imagination to make it real. Seriously, $15 is a huge markup.

Since you're no conjurer and apparently haven't read any of the posts about conjuring, you probably don't know how much time runs into it.

From going out, getting them or conjuring them up, which might cost offerings like candles, incense, etc, items consumed in the rituals. Not to mention the time, then interviewing them, writing a contract, making that binding contract, making the spell for it, maybe attuning it to the keeper, vetting the spirit, making sure it's what it's supposed to be, matches to your energy, to your requirements. There's actually a lot of work, time and energy running into that.

You just have to use your imagination to make it real. That's all you have to do. You're not even doing half the work.

None of that is real - or part of the price - unless it is at minimum documented. It still can't really be verified. More work goes into making a fast food burger. Think about all the industries and government agencies which are involved. Think about the many gallons of water it takes to grow the grains, raise the cattle, and process each of the ingredients. There are inspections at every step along the way. Even at the level of the store you have the person who orders the meat, cheese, buns, onions, tomatoes, lettuce, pickles, ketchup, mustard, mayonnaise, and salt. You have the person who cooks the patties. You have the person who assembles it. You have the person who puts your order in the computer and takes the money. You have a shift manager who watches to see that the person handling raw beef and chicken washes their hands before handling cooked ingredients. Another person does the cleaning to ensure that the store stays nice and sanitary. Just in the store itself there could be half a dozen people involved in making sure you get good food. Most of them don't get paid well, don't have health insurance, and don't get appreciated for the work they do - because it is just a cheap burger. In comparison, when you conjure a Spirit all you have to do is say you spent hours working on it and that you used a bunch of supplies. Maybe you did and maybe you didn't. Who is to say? All you have to do is say that you have Spells to protect your work so no one can get a valid second opinion as to if any of it ever existed in the first place. How much would you pay for a cheeseburger if all you got was the wrapper and you had to just imagine that you were eating? And maybe you didn't even get the wrapper. Maybe all you have to show for your meal is the receipt.

Well, you don't really get to see how the burger is produced either. You just assume it's the way it is. Maybe they're buying cheap rat meat, maybe they're buying beef, who knows?

Beside the discounts for the giant amounts of food bought, they still make a fortune selling cheap burgers.
A conjurer doesn't produce in such masses that they can get that much revenue. They can't because it's so much manual work. It's not like they have giant factories and machines to do the jobs for them.

You can't compare a mass produced item in that business with something a conjurer does.
You could compare it to an artist making an oil painting.

And even if it would be documented, and you could request that, it's still just words on paper. You would have to be there to be sure what happens and how long it takes.

Maybe the better comparison would have been if you pay for a cheap postcard black and white printout, you can't expect an oil painted Rembrandt.

Sure. Let's say I buy the postcard. It is a 10 cent photocopy on a 5 cent piece of heavy paper. There is still a picture on it. Let's say it is a picture of two cats. I pay $15 to have it mailed to me. Everyone who looks at it says it looks like two cats, and then they ask me what the point is. I tell them I like cats. I'm happy because those cats are really cute. I wouldn't care if there had never been a Rembrandt in the world, ever. Or Picasso. You know what would bother me? If I pay $15 and all I get is a receipt, or a receipt and a blank piece of paper - and I have to imagine seeing cats.

Have you ever had Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee? Usually you just get a blend and you are lucky to have any of the real beans in it. I bought the real thing more than once back when I had more money. It ran $60 to $80 for just a single pound of coffee beans. Sometimes I got my coffee and it didn't taste like Jamaican Blue Mountain. Then I would try a different supplier. That was seriously good coffee. It is the best in the world. I could taste the difference and I didn't have to ask if I was getting what I paid for.

Inedible wrote:If I pay $15 and all I get is a receipt, or a receipt and a blank piece of paper - and I have to imagine seeing cats.

That wasn't my point and you know that.

Inedible wrote: Have you ever had Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee? Usually you just get a blend and you are lucky to have any of the real beans in it. I bought the real thing more than once back when I had more money. It ran $60 to $80 for just a single pound of coffee beans. Sometimes I got my coffee and it didn't taste like Jamaican Blue Mountain. Then I would try a different supplier. That was seriously good coffee. It is the best in the world. I could taste the difference and I didn't have to ask if I was getting what I paid for.

Yes, I heard of it. I went for Kopi Luwak, just for the fun of it.

Now try that without working tastebuds, you would be equally disappointed as you are with spirit keeping.
And since we could just turn around every argument to fit our point of view, I'll let it go. You see it your way and will always be disappointed, I'll see it my way and continue making long strides towards success, let's keep it that way. Nyar Nyar 1la