pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby soul786 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:02 pm

good knowledge. thanks darkwig.
first of all i only wanted to tell what djinns and angels r actually capable of. thats it.
i put the viewpoint i know, islamic sunni viewpoint.
i did generalize because there was no need for debate here. see how long this post became just to clear generalizations.
there r various viewpoints of various scholars, would u think of putting all of them to tell only 1 or 2 things.
this will be confusing for average person, even for average muslims.
u can put any 1 of scholars viewpoint, it will be sufficient to tell what u want to convey. any more than that and post will be more of a scholar level not normal person level.
and this kind of info even if not backed by hadiths doesnt have any ill affects. 1 can believe 1 debate and other can believe other debate. ALLAH PAK already decided what will happen and it will happen as such.
scholars respect eachothers views, as most have proofs
ALLAH KNOWS BEST.



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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby Samsara » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:06 am

soul786 wrote:"crazily devoted to religion" --------------- OUCH

i m not crazy.
i m honestly devoted to my religion and i believe in ALLAH more than anything (entity, humans, animals)
but yes i contact them as needed. but for me GOD created everything, so if he favours me, everyone will favour me.
i have seen GODLY miracles with my own eyes. and i love them, it increases my faith each time.

"I'm sure consciousness sent down information to different languages which lead to different interpretations."
i would like to add different time periods also.

nice talking to u.


Have you killed anyone over religion? If not, you are not crazy. LOL. Peace friend!


"Man is what he sees in other people."

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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby soul786 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:04 am

LOL,
killing, i cant think of killing even an innocent insect.

after talking ash mag, i will update this post, it may take sometime.
thanks everyone



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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby darkwing dook » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:46 am

soul786 wrote:i put the viewpoint i know, islamic sunni viewpoint.
Heheh you know some of the stuff you referenced are from Shia teachings, right? : D
It's why I mentioned ulama from Saudi actually. Try confirming with them whether the source you have is sahih or not : )


soul786 wrote:i did generalize because there was no need for debate here. see how long this post became just to clear generalizations.
there r various viewpoints of various scholars, would u think of putting all of them to tell only 1 or 2 things.
Like it or not, it's logical fallacy of overgeneralization.
The best way is to avoid generalizing. Example, instead of saying "According to Islam..", you can say "According to several Islamic scholars..." or "According to certain Islamic traditions..." etc., thus saving average Muslims who don't know and those scholars who have opposing opinions from being involved : )


soul786 wrote:this will be confusing for average person, even for average muslims.
u can put any 1 of scholars viewpoint, it will be sufficient to tell what u want to convey. any more than that and post will be more of a scholar level not normal person level.
Yeah, I'm just responding to what you posted : P You could have rephrased what you posted in a manner that is simpler to understand and less prone to misunderstanding : )

Confusing as it is, it's necessary to clarify the contexts and definitions as to avoid misunderstanding. This also includes spirit keeping; which is why it's always highly recommended to read through everything in the encyclopedia, and then as many as possible in the forum to get the general and CH-specific info. And for other sellers, as they may have their own specific info, it's better to read their info and ask directly to the sellers. One example, even the term "djinn" may denote different things:
topic47619.html#p494300

Same as any philosophical and esoteric teachings; some meaning can be abstract, some can be fixed, and others are inbetween. You can interpret any info within the understanding of your teaching, but always verify what the authors/conveyors originally mean.


soul786 wrote:scholars respect eachothers views, as most have proofs
Not entirely true, unfortunately. You know, politics, fatwa, and stuff (Example: those whole fiasco with Zakir Naik : P).


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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby soul786 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:43 am

you referenced are from Shia teachings

asif part may be only angels part but in general no, u can read "tafsir ibn kathir"
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... ew&id=2238
israfil part (pbuh), zainul abidin, is great islamic personality.

Example, instead of saying "According to Islam..", you can say "According to several Islamic scholars

agree, but i use so many references and doesnt generalize only when there is something related to core teachings and actions, like if i talk about salat, roza, one GOD etc.i must give proper reference.
regarding above asif and israfil(pbuh) info, it is not big deal, it doesnt go against islamic teachings especially not related to actions or core teachings. u know even zaeef hadith can be used if needed here.
for ex. about judgement day, there r numerous views of scholars, and some even conflict eachother, but doesnt affect core islamic teachings. for ex. where is hell, who will be in which layer of hell, timeperiods related to judgment day etc.

You know, politics, fatwa, and stuff (Example: those whole fiasco with Zakir Naik

1 ex. i can give u is of 4 sunni imams - abu hanifa, imam shafi etc. they even offered salats with eachother in imamat of other, and respected eachother.
about zakir naik, i love him, it will take whole thread to about him, he calls himself student not scholar. the dispute arise when he talk on masail, so people question sunni schools of thoughts. nowadays he speaks very less on masails.

sometimes zaeef hadith is used. i m sunni, follows deoband school of thoughts.
http://www.islamieducation.com/a-few-pr ... of-hadith/
https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.wordpres ... f-ahadees/

about jinns and angels 2 books from Imam Jalal Uddin Suyuti
http://kutubistan.blogspot.in/2015/05/f ... -book.html
https://archive.org/details/TareekhJinn ... ranslation

there r some islamic info that doesnt need debate.



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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby darkwing dook » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:22 pm

Heheh see, you continued : P
Hopefully the mods won't get mad that this thread is already off the original topic by far.

soul786 wrote:asif part may be only angels part but in general no, u can read "tafsir ibn kathir"
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option ... ew&id=2238
Yep, I read that tafsir when I heard the Salafis like it. It was a good interpretation after all : )
However, none in the tafsir said about him using Ism al-Adham (knowing is not equal to using) nor the khodam/muwakkil.

soul786 wrote:israfil part (pbuh), zainul abidin, is great islamic personality.
Still, not many Muslims know about Zainal Abidin al-Fathani. Even though he's born in Malaysia, not many Indonesian know about him.

soul786 wrote:agree, but i use so many references and doesnt generalize only when there is something related to core teachings and actions,...

Not when I first caught you, man : P
Check the post where I first question your source reference.

Plus, Israfil as the first angel and Israfil vs Izrail as the last angel are not included in core teaching of Islam. The core would be the stuff in Quran. Sahih and hasan Hadiths are secondary, while the rest are not core thus require verification.


soul786 wrote:regarding above asif and israfil(pbuh) info, it is not big deal, it doesnt go against islamic teachings especially not related to actions or core teachings. u know even zaeef hadith can be used if needed here.

Exactly because it is, at most, da'if (weak), it cannot be used to represent the Islamic belief as a whole, even if it's not against the Islamic teaching. Remember when I said about generalization : )
When to quote Dhaeef Hadith

It is permissible to quote Dhaeef Hadith if:
1. It is not related to Islamic beliefs.
2. It is not related to Halal and Haram.
3. It is related to things like motivation or admonition.(Targeeb or Tarheeb)

Source: Ahmad, R., Introduction to Al-Hadith


soul786 wrote:i m sunni, follows deoband school of thoughts.

Aah see, if you just said "According to the some Islamic teaching of Deobandi,..." etc. at the beginning, we wouldn't have this long, long off-topic discussion : )

And too bad I don't speak or read Urdu. Have only checked al-Itqan and Medicine of the Prophet long ago.


soul786 wrote:there r some islamic info that doesnt need debate.
Sure there are.
And surely there are some that require verification : )


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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby ☆Aytide☆ » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:38 pm

lol do you support FPI and habib riziek? : P Just asking


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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby soul786 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:28 pm

by core i mean, for ex. does it affect (knowing who will be last one to die, or how asif brought throne, does it affect to know where is hell, where is qarun, how many wings jibrael (pbuh) has) ur belief or ur actions like salat or roza etc. haram or halal etc. no. so it can have references from scholars or zaeef hadith. just like fazail (benefits) r quoted even from zaeef hadith, the urdu article tells that.
it is specifically mentioned that asif had knowledge of book, in ibn kathir it is mentioned as ism e azam, is there anything else mentioned? like how he looked like, his family, his occupation etc. no, only "knowledge of book" is mentioned, simply to tell that he used it in someway.
how many popular scholars average muslims know of. very few. hazrat shibli, junaid baghdadi, abdullah bin mubarak, etc.



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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby darkwing dook » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:40 pm

☆Aytide☆ wrote:lol do you support FPI and habib riziek? : P Just asking

What made you ask that?


soul786 wrote:by core i mean, for ex. does it affect (knowing who will be last one to die, or how asif brought throne, does it affect to know where is hell, where is qarun, how many wings jibrael (pbuh) has) ur belief or ur actions like salat or roza etc. haram or halal etc. no. so it can have references from scholars or zaeef hadith. just like fazail (benefits) r quoted even from zaeef hadith, the urdu article tells that.
it is specifically mentioned that asif had knowledge of book, in ibn kathir it is mentioned as ism e azam, is there anything else mentioned? like how he looked like, his family, his occupation etc. no, only "knowledge of book" is mentioned, simply to tell that he used it in someway.
how many popular scholars average muslims know of. very few. hazrat shibli, junaid baghdadi, abdullah bin mubarak, etc.

I don't think you understand my inquiry.

All those examples and that remark about da'if hadith, do you think they sufficiently represent the whole Islamic belief, so that you said "According to Islam,.." in this post?:
topic71552.html#p734252
Are you confident that if anyone in this forum ask some Muslims from Saudi, Iran, China, Malaysia, etc. that "According to Islam, Israfil is the first angel created", those Muslims will agree? Same thing about the throne being brought by khodam/muwakkil, are you sure it's 100% safe to ask those Muslims (considering some of them can be hot-blooded about it)?

Remember that a lot of people in this forum do not follow Islamic teaching. If you insist on implying that your tradition is the general Islamic teaching, or that it doesn't matter which ones are specific to your tradition and which ones are general, then it really does sound like you're pushing your tradition's ideology and belief here, as mentioned by conxtion in another thread.

I will stop my replies here unless it's related to the original topic before the mods come through. This already broke Forum Rule #5. If you'd like to continue this discussion, it'd be wiser to do so in properly designated forum section : )


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Re: pls help. my aunt insane. need healing

Postby soul786 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:03 pm

sorry, yes u r right. actually this discussion\debate has no benefit either to u or me or anyone here.
i m not implying beleifs, just answered ur questions.
"some of them can be hot-blooded", to these types of people nothing can be discussed, not even salat, because salat is offered in many different ways in different sects, though major actions r similar but minor ones r many and different. they will say im right, instead of that u follow what u like, i follow what i like. normal muslims dont fignt on such small issues, but these people will. it is like i m right u r wrong. instead our scholars never fought, they said ok u believe that, i believe this. both have some sort of proofs. but yes dont tolerate shirk or bidat, bidat is innovations like celebrating birthday of prophet thinking it as islamic action etc.
i too will end this unnecessary debate, started by u, remember u asked for proof. 1s
but i would like to add 1 thing, that either me or u or anyone has any doubt then approach scholar of respective sects and not pretend urself as scholar and go on debating, honestly u have different mindset and beliefs and i too have differences, so debates and differences can never end.
but no matter differences, i love u and all <3 1ht

i will update when i find any help for my aunt. and u too if find anything good for my aunt let me know.

and can u point me to some third eye, entity communication etc. exercises, more is better, only links.
i want to develop myself to advance level so that i can see them in true forms and talk to them like i talk to humans while waking, i know it can take time.
i have connecting pt1 and 2, spirit chi, university class ash third eye. some of their exercises i dont understand. and can i pm or email u. so not adding to this thread.




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