It does not only operate on logic. That is how you might perceive it. But a lot of things happening are not just logic based. People just try to explain them that way. That's what science is about, explaining our reality and it's rules based on rationality and logic. Doesn't make it true and universal.
And time isn't linear either, that's just how we perceive it

Names for me one example of something in this physical universe of something that doesn’t abide by logic

Then you've never visited a realm of logic or the plane of logic itself.

Uuuuu I’m in one... right now... the plane of logic. Name for me one space on the astral plane so that I can see for myself.

The astral is many things, not just emotionally based...

Maybe emotionally is the rong word. The astral is still feminine though but since u say otherwise then give me some places to check out so I can see for my self because it’s your words vs. that of discarnates.

you're putting things in boxes that are too big to put in boxes. That's why you only see aspects of it and not the whole, as much as one can see the whole anyway.

No. What I’m doing is pointing out the polaritys of these planes. There are no boxes per day just polarity. Which is in all things.

And why wouldn't I be able to focus on past and future events? I can and I have

Oh so your telling me that while your in the astral u are thinking about dinner tonight? Or what you had for lunch yesterday? Not traveling back to see it but thinking about it while doing something else there.

Well, it kind of does. It isn't my main body. It doesn't need to poop, it doesn't even really need to sleep.

Your right. It doesn’t need sleep. It does “poop” however. Like constantly. Not in the same way that your meat suit poops but it poops.

Theirs is their main body, so it needs to eat, poop, sleep.

The reason your main body needs to do these things has nothing to do with the fact that it’s your main body. It does those things because it needs to. You eat because you need energy to fuel the machine that is your meat suit. You sleep because your brain needs a break. You poop because you need to get rid of the waste that is a result of the food you adjusted. Even if your astral body and physical body sealed and the astral was your main body your physical Body from this plane would still need to do these things because that’s how it works here.

They don’t need to sleep lol. It might be their main body but that doesn’t mean that they experience that place differently from our astral body.

It's not just about my perception. It's about how the astral realms is basically the physical reality for astral entities. Like our realm is the physical reality for our bodies

That room operates on the perception of the observer. This one does not. It makes no difference which body is your main body. Each respective body is subjected to the rules of that respective realm

If they stub their toes on an astral rock, it hurts. Their astral rocks are insubstantial for our physical bodies and we just walk right through them.

This is quite subjective though. When I’m there I can walk through things but only when I chose to and same goes for them.

Our astral bodies might even be able to walk through the rocks or obliterate them, depending on the place and the rules.

If your astral body can do something then so can any other astral body.

And tbh, as long as a discarnate exists so it had to incarnate in a reality.

A discarnate is an entity that does not incarnate in the physical Plane. Beings don’t incarnate on the astral plane. They don’t have forms and they want to so they go there. They do this in much the same way that we shift our consciousness there with the addition that they need to create a body. We do this as well. Your astral body is not created by the physical one. It comes into being from higher states of vibration. It mirrors this body because that’s what we’re focused on. With the exception of those of us who have altered there astral body to look like something else.

Otherwise it would remain in the void as potential. Per definition a discarnate is just a being that doesn't have a physical body, meaning basically every spirit and astral entity we encounter, because we don't encounter them here in our physical reality.

That’s what I meant lol and no it doesn’t need to remain in the voice in order for it to exist as a discarnate.

Ok look both of our perspectives are valid but I just want you to understand that this subject is subjective. We each have our own experience here. Each is both right and rong.

Everything that you say about the astral is true however not objectively so unless however you think it is because by thinking that it is it will manifest that way. But this only applies there and not here. It’s just how these planes are different. This plane is maunly masculine and that plane is mainly feminine. That’s how polarity works.

Dasadon wrote:
Names for me one example of something in this physical universe of something that doesn’t abide by logic

Dark Matter, Quantum everything. Be alive and dead at the same time. Logical? No. Paradoxical? Yes. But we accept it and try to explain it with rational thinking.

Dasadon wrote:
Uuuuu I’m in one... right now... the plane of logic. Name for me one space on the astral plane so that I can see for myself.

Causal plane, conceptual plane, plane of mathematics, plane of logic, plane of adjustment.

Dasadon wrote:
Maybe emotionally is the rong word. The astral is still feminine though but since u say otherwise then give me some places to check out so I can see for my self because it’s your words vs. that of discarnates.

Plane of fire. Pure masculinity

Dasadon wrote:
No. What I’m doing is pointing out the polaritys of these planes. There are no boxes per day just polarity. Which is in all things.

Unless you take the absolutes.

Dasadon wrote:
Oh so your telling me that while your in the astral u are thinking about dinner tonight? Or what you had for lunch yesterday? Not traveling back to see it but thinking about it while doing something else there.

Sure, why not? I have things to do and when it comes up, I think about it. You don't?

Dasadon wrote:
Your right. It doesn’t need sleep. It does “poop” however. Like constantly. Not in the same way that your meat suit poops but it poops.

No, it doesn't. And my energy is tightly packed and I hardly let anything out unless I intend to. So no energy pooping either.

Dasadon wrote:
They don’t need to sleep lol. It might be their main body but that doesn’t mean that they experience that place differently from our astral body.

Spirits don't need to sleep, living astral entities do need to sleep. They live lives with family and yes, they get tired an sleep. Get your facts straight.

Dasadon wrote:
This is quite subjective though. When I’m there I can walk through things but only when I chose to and same goes for them.

No, if they are solid on their plane and their plane is solid, they can't walk through it. Otherwise nobody could ever be imprisoned or anything there, they would just walk out.

Dasadon wrote:
If your astral body can do something then so can any other astral body.

There are alternate realities out there that are similar to our world. So if you can project there and time travel there, which you can, why can't you do that here? They're an offspring of our universe after all.

Dasadon wrote:
A discarnate is an entity that does not incarnate in the physical Plane. Beings don’t incarnate on the astral plane. They don’t have forms and they want to so they go there.

Living astral entities get birthed by other living astral entities and die. That's how it works, much like here.

Dasadon wrote:
Everything that you say about the astral is true however not objectively so unless however you think it is because by thinking that it is it will manifest that way.

That might be true for the plane of imagination, dreams and some other planes, but real astral places don't accord to your wishes and what you think. If someone on the astral plane punches you in the face, it hurts. Even if you don't think it does, well, unless you're not in tune with your astral body. But that astral body is hurt and if a practitioner looks at you, they can even see the injury, even if you didn't tell them about it and even if you don't think it hurts or you're injured.

Slowly I have the feeling we're talking about totally different things here. Just watch out that you don't just run around in your inner realms where you have total control. The true world is different than that.
And I've been beaten up by Lucifer and Michael and yes, we're talking about the Angels.

We are talking about the same thing we just have different perspectives on it.

I’ll try checking out some of these planes. Although I don’t agree with all of your views about astral entities due to my current experience with them I suppose that it is possible that this changes in the future. I’ll try checking out some of these planes. Although I don’t agree with all of your views about astral entities due to my current experience with them I suppose that it is possible that this changes in the future.

Usually when I project it is very solid experience. Like being here in the physical world. Are haps my experiences have something to do with the rooms that I travel then.

Dasadon wrote:Usually when I project it is very solid experience. Like being here in the physical world. Are haps my experiences have something to do with the rooms that I travel then.

The thing is, in the beginning of spirit/entity keeping when I had delusional episodes, thanks to energy overloads, too high and too much expectations and the possibilities, I had a lot of real and solid experiences. Well, real to me, not real in a general sense. But sometimes that reality one perceives is limited to their own mind. And that is when you get trapped in there, alone. Which leads to a lot of experiences that nobody will ever share.

I had help with breaking out of there. Especially by the practitioners of the spirits/entities of my keep. And after that experience which taught me a lot, I always preach trust but verify. And don't just verify by yourself. Talk to others even if you'd have to pay practitioners to verify.

And nowadays I prefer experiences that I can share and talk about with others. Like sending beings in your keep for visits without prior knowledge about them, to check if people hear/see the same I do and vice versa.
Doing astral travels to places with others, so we can describe things we see to each other and realize the other describes something we saw without saying something about it beforehand.

Things like that are invaluable especially with the more insubstantial things since most people are not born with these senses. And if one does not have a way to validate their experience, one can easily get trapped in their imagination since in the beginning there's nothing to keep those two apart.

That's why magical orders exist, shared experiences, teachers being able to check upon the experiences of students, etc.
It always pays off to have a mentor/partner for stuff like that. Or you'll end up being the only person talking about something because it's really just subjective reality and limited to your own mind. It's lonely there, believe me. Unless you have multiple personalities.......but.......still it's just yourself.

Since I just thought of this now, here is something to help connect with the elemental planes.
Our physical realm is close to the earth element, because it represents density, gravity and, of course physicality.
You can read up on the four elements too. About their magnetic/contracting/feminine and electric/expanding/masculine properties. Afaik fire and water are pure, masculine and feminine respectively, air and earth are a bit more mixed.

Aprophis wrote:

Dasadon wrote:Usually when I project it is very solid experience. Like being here in the physical world. Are haps my experiences have something to do with the rooms that I travel then.

The thing is, in the beginning of spirit/entity keeping when I had delusional episodes, thanks to energy overloads, too high and too much expectations and the possibilities, I had a lot of real and solid experiences. Well, real to me, not real in a general sense. But sometimes that reality one perceives is limited to their own mind. And that is when you get trapped in there, alone. Which leads to a lot of experiences that nobody will ever share.

I had help with breaking out of there. Especially by the practitioners of the spirits/entities of my keep. And after that experience which taught me a lot, I always preach trust but verify. And don't just verify by yourself. Talk to others even if you'd have to pay practitioners to verify.

And nowadays I prefer experiences that I can share and talk about with others. Like sending beings in your keep for visits without prior knowledge about them, to check if people hear/see the same I do and vice versa.
Doing astral travels to places with others, so we can describe things we see to each other and realize the other describes something we saw without saying something about it beforehand.

Things like that are invaluable especially with the more insubstantial things since most people are not born with these senses. And if one does not have a way to validate their experience, one can easily get trapped in their imagination since in the beginning there's nothing to keep those two apart.

That's why magical orders exist, shared experiences, teachers being able to check upon the experiences of students, etc.
It always pays off to have a mentor/partner for stuff like that. Or you'll end up being the only person talking about something because it's really just subjective reality and limited to your own mind. It's lonely there, believe me. Unless you have multiple personalities.......but.......still it's just yourself.

Personally I’ve never found it difficult to differentiate between the astral plane and my inner world. Both experiences are just totally different from one another as I’m sure you were aware. And I agree with you that having other people to compare experiences to is a wonderful resource.

I don’t totally agree with your perspective but even so I think I will test it. I mean there’s no harm in doing that right? Anyway I’ll check out these elemental planes and look for some of these beings as you have described them. Who knows I could find that I’m rong.

Well anyway, thanks for the chat AProphis. I think I’m done with this thread. All it’s doing now is all rising the to of us against each other and I don’t want that.

Dasadon wrote: Personally I’ve never found it difficult to differentiate between the astral plane and my inner world. Both experiences are just totally different from one another as I’m sure you were aware. And I agree with you that having other people to compare experiences to is a wonderful resource.

Then you're lucky. For me in the beginning it was all just the same, insubstantial.

Dasadon wrote: I don’t totally agree with your perspective but even so I think I will test it. I mean there’s no harm in doing that right? Anyway I’ll check out these elemental planes and look for some of these beings as you have described them.

Honestly, that's already more than anyone could ask. Usually the most I can hope for that people consider other point of views.

Dasadon wrote: Well anyway, thanks for the chat AProphis. I think I’m done with this thread. All it’s doing now is all rising the to of us against each other and I don’t want that.

That's quite alright. I wouldn't have pushed further. It already feels like I'm kind of trying of propagating my own reality. Just like some say language is a virus, other things like to propagate too. And I wouldn't want to ruin the unique way of seeing things of others.
The reason I do this though, is because I've gone the wrong way and want to keep people from experiencing the same.
And after I've been punched the first time in the astral realm (amongst other things, that were worse), I realised that neither the realms nor the beings really care what you think/believe is real. They still impact you if they want to in ways you might not want to.
Then again, I'm a stubborn b*stard, so punching is probably the only thing that goes through my thick head.