When It Comes to BA

User avatar
Noctua
sanctified
sanctified
Posts: 12384
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:24 pm
You are...: experienced

When It Comes to BA

Postby Noctua » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:39 am

I commented on this briefly when it came up, and didn't want to hijack any threads - didn't know if I would be or not, but I have my own thoughts/wisdom on safety when it comes to the practice of Black Arts. Extending into related tangents.

How "safety" is understood in this case is unique, complex..directly corresponding to the act you are choosing. You can't have the safety you would in other situations, you can't ever go into it thinking you are safe from some price or strain. This is just my knowledge, my experience on the matter.
Knowing what you are getting yourself into, and truly understanding the nature of BA is really very important.

So the question then, is, how do you prepare? It's preparation, that you really need to be considering. Preparation for the blow of the energy, for what this art encompasses.
The key to this is in your mental, and spiritual health. Your mental and spiritual state of being. Strengthening yourself spiritually combats overly ill effect of BA, and being in an appropriate as well as healthy mental state ensures so much else by way of safety. Still it is to an extent. Even if to a great extent, you would experience the energy manifested.

I suppose when I state the above i'm addressing anything BA in nature, not just the practice of magick but interaction with the energy, spirits, entities.

I'm not one to find BA necessary, it is known that one can achieve just about anything you can think of through DA methods (WA can be part of the spectrum, but I exclude it to be fair in addressing the neutral ground rather than one extreme or another).
With that, you should really ask yourself why you are choosing it - stop to think about these things, to make sure your time and energy is invested wisely. I mean this can backfire on you pretty easily, especially if you cannot sustain the right state of being as noted above, so does the risk have to go that far or can you take care of what you want with less of an extreme?

Some will argue they just take to this extreme better, which in turn I could argue - as being humans we are DA and I don't see why that would be. Of course it is possible to feel that connection despite how unnatural it may appear given the facts - however, that does not mean it is at all rational to apply so exclusively. Honestly I have to question your state of mentality already if you feel this exclusive bond with BA, it would signify some extent of instability and therefore inability to "safely" work within the realm of BA.. at that point the individual wouldn't care for themselves -- the danger is for others.

More practically, you will want protection set to withstand or catch some of the blow that could potentially (well, it will in some form) come back at you from your BA work.
There are also ways of cunning that would come to your advantage in circumventing disaster, but at a point of this you may find it has transitioned down the spectrum from BA to DA. Shock! Awe! It happens, as DA is a spectrum of it's own and the darkest end can indeed border the black arts.
In fact i'm convinced a lot of individuals who think they are dealing with BA are actually working with this dark of DA - but then it's also a matter of how you define these areas for yourself.

An overview for the matter of "safely" and responsibly practicing the Black Arts:

Mentally stable or grounded
Spiritually strengthened
Knowledge and Understanding
Added Protection or Cunning
Only if/when necessary (assuming one has a reasonable idea)
-Prepare to bear effects for life in any case, which can range from basic apathy or torment to more serious damage-

There may be more to say, this is what comes to mind and is most important.

(Moved this from Black Magick to Black Arts section as it seemed more fitting)


“The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. Resist it, and your soul grows sick with longing for the things it has forbidden to itself.."
― Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

User avatar
Terror
sanctified
sanctified
Posts: 6829
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:06 am
You are...: in the learning process
Number of Spirits: 0
Spelled Number: 0
Your favorite spirit to work with: Fallen angels
If I could be anything, I would be...: Fallen angel
My super power would be...: Read other's minds
My magical/paranormal name...: Azura Rose Jet

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby Terror » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:35 pm

NoctemAeternus wrote:Some will argue they just take to this extreme better, which in turn I could argue - as being humans we are DA and I don't see why that would be. Of course it is possible to feel that connection despite how unnatural it may appear given the facts - however, that does not mean it is at all rational to apply so exclusively. Honestly I have to question your state of mentality already if you feel this exclusive bond with BA, it would signify some extent of instability and therefore inability to "safely" work within the realm of BA.. at that point the individual wouldn't care for themselves -- the danger is for others.
[/size]


Thank you so much for pointing this out, particularly given your breadth of experience with BA.


Image

User avatar
TheFancifulFox
active contributor
active contributor
Posts: 848
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:40 pm
You are...: experienced
Number of Spirits: 78
Spelled Number: 250
Your favorite spirit to work with: Mine
My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift
My magical/paranormal name...: Fox

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby TheFancifulFox » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:57 pm

Na'rayah Earth wrote:Just want to add as well, for me personally, I would heavily discourage anyone new to both Spirit Keeping AND practising in magick from even considering diving straight into the practise of BA.

I still stand by my feelings that if one is sound in the above mentioned by Noc, the very best is to be taught by a BA Master. I can understand that not everyone has access to that, but understand that it is then even MORE risky and dangerous to undergo on your own.


Very good advice! I should think that if one can't find a BA master to learn with, then they shouldn't attempt to learn on their own, period. No one needs it so badly that they could justify the consequences of doing it on their own.

I'm even treading lightly with WA until I find a good mentor in my area. I don't want to be a "dabbler", remaining static at the first step of "dipping my toes in"; but I don't want to screw things up by attempting to "self teach" in the area of spellwork either. So for now meditation, communication with my spiirts, and shielding are my main focuses. There is a whole world of information on the forum and the encyclopedia, but it doesn't replace the need for an actual person guiding you through it.

I feel that a lot of these things needed to be said Noc, so thank you very much for putting it out there. Like I said on Bellatrix's thread, I have no intention of getting into BA at any point in my life. However, there are many that do and they need the hear what people like you guys have to say. When people are hurting, mentally unstable, or just down right immature, the BA may seem very alluring. But those frames of mind are the most dangerous to be in for this stuff!


The foolish hurry. The smart wait. The wise go into the garden.

Image

Image

User avatar
Snakat
acclaimed member
acclaimed member
Posts: 1656
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:18 am
You are...: in the learning process
My super power would be...: See spirits in true form

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby Snakat » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:40 pm

Very good post, I also believe BA is something one should learn from a master to many risks learning just from books. But I do feel some poeple that say they are dealing with BA are just on darkest part of DA. Again is something good to learn when you have who to help you but as long they don't ignore WA and DA. That is way I like DA so much I find it more balanced than WA and BA, that are extremes.


"Let no thought of limitation enter your mind." -Robert Collier
“The soul would have no rainbows if the eyes had no tears." -Native American Proverb
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal." -From a headstone in Ireland

User avatar
sadlotus79
venerated member
venerated member
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:22 pm
You are...: in the learning process
Number of Spirits: 0
Spelled Number: 0
My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby sadlotus79 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:04 pm

one should learn ANYTHING from a master if they have the chance. :thumbup:


When one tugs at a single thing in nature,he find it attached to the rest of the world.
John Muir

Men soon the faults of others learn
A few their virtues, too, find out;
But is there one—I have a doubt—
Who can his own defects discern?
Sanskrit Proverb

tagore.
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
dachong
neophyte
neophyte
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:18 pm
You are...: in the learning process
Number of Spirits: 9
Spelled Number: 2
Your favorite spirit to work with: Demons
If I could be anything, I would be...: Lich
My super power would be...: Ability to fly
My magical/paranormal name...: oyEys

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby dachong » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:31 am

I was bidding on a Lilith vortex from the VS bros yesterday, Hans & Heini had to pull it off from the listing and said its too dangerous for me to keep. Even the vessel was only $30, but it will absorbs energy from my weaker companions & then from me eventually..and more vampys & Succubus will come from there later :mummy:


Proud owner of a 2005 Honda Civic Si Type R
Eldraath is my Patron.

User avatar
moongypsy
acclaimed member
acclaimed member
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:29 pm
You are...: a practitioner
Your favorite spirit to work with: dark and white
If I could be anything, I would be...: I like being me
My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift
My magical/paranormal name...: moongypsy

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby moongypsy » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:53 pm

Nice thread, noc. I've been concerned and perplexed by a message given to me very out of the blue recently, I think by one of the spirits in my keep. I was told that I must learn BA to ultimately reach where I want to be. I found/find this to be distirbing, considering I have no desire to learn black magic or keep BA spirits, although I do keep some very dark spirits. I have been tjinking about it and the only thing about this that would make sense to me would be to educate myself on BA at some point not practice it. For whatever reason, this message was given to me. I would never delve into it alone- ever. I would seek a mentor. Anyway, very informative thread, thanks!


There is a thin line between brilliance and insanity[color=#BF0000][/color]

User avatar
Noctua
sanctified
sanctified
Posts: 12384
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:24 pm
You are...: experienced

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby Noctua » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:26 am

moongypsy wrote: I have been tjinking about it and the only thing about this that would make sense to me would be to educate myself on BA at some point not practice it.


I think this above all else would be a great reason to delve into it, and could easily be why you were given that message. It would be a very wise thing for occultists to learn the ways of all the spectrum.. WA, DA, and BA - understand them for balance.
Of course you don't need to practice it, follow your instincts; knowledge is key.. and then who can be certain of what the future holds.


“The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. Resist it, and your soul grows sick with longing for the things it has forbidden to itself.."
― Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

User avatar
Nightraven
venerated member
venerated member
Posts: 2698
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:25 pm
You are...: a practitioner
Number of Spirits: 40
Spelled Number: 12
Your favorite spirit to work with: Fae
If I could be anything, I would be...: Vampire
My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby Nightraven » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:56 pm

I picked up a lot of tips in this thread and had to bump it.


Phil.

Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the Nightly shore-
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!"
Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore."- Poe

User avatar
NyctophiliaRaven
venerated member
venerated member
Posts: 4923
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:10 pm
You are...: a master
Number of Spirits: 0
Spelled Number: 0
Your favorite spirit to work with: Everyone
If I could be anything, I would be...: Myself.
My magical/paranormal name...: KITTY!!!!!!!!

Re: When It Comes to BA

Postby NyctophiliaRaven » Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:20 pm

Let me start off by saying... I do not believe that any path is wrong. I do not believe that anything that you deliberately choose to do to yourself is wrong. I do not believe I have the right to judge you, your path, your choices... Except where they begin to impact other people in a harmful way that is not deserved.

Shooting the spree killer is fine. Shooting the little old lady stalling your car at the crosswalk because you slept that extra 15 minutes and are now late to work... not so much.

I do not believe that the BA, which I occasionally have had to practice, are wrong. I do not believe that DA, which I practice regularly, are wrong. I do not believe that WA are the only true, proper, right way to practice magick. I also don't believe that WA cannot combat BA or DA, and I do not believe that WA are weaker or less malleable.

I do not believe that everyone who practices BA or DA has fallen down the rabbit hole.

I believe that we live in a world where learning about the BA is essential - if only for reasons of sheer self-preservation. There are idiots on the road, and if you're going to be driving a plastic car, you should take a Defensive Driving Course.

Practicing the BA, however - and I'm not talking pulling them out as a last ditch effort, but actually PRACTICING THEM, all by their lonesome - is addictive and damaging, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and sometimes physically. It changes the shape of your soul. Literally. And it leaves STAINS YOU WILL NEVER GET OFF (well, not without Divine intervention), which brand you as that kind of practitioner to everyone who can See, and even those who CANNOT See get a subtle feeling about you. Eventually, most BA practitioners who don't know what they're doing or how to protect themselves from their Art, and I know, because I've had to clean up the mess, become so mentally unstable that they no longer care about others, or themselves. They lash out for no reason, just to get their next fix... and they come across as deranged, and ALWAYS afraid.

I don't PRACTICE the BA because I don't want to live in that crazy place where everything is always someone else's fault, I'm always touchy and afraid, and I'm so stained I can't see straight. For me, it's not a path, it's not a lifestyle. Most of the time, what I deal with can be resolved with DA anyway... cursing someone is rarely necessary - a simple Justice spell works wonders on most issues. Knowing Demonology is just plain sense - knowing how to get that Thing that just showed up out of your house is smart... but that's about as far into the BA as I've ever really needed to go. I'm OK with that, having seen the damage the BA do to others.

I've studied JUST ENOUGH to keep my head above water in a tight situation, because for some reason, Healer or not, I seem to frequently end up in combat situations... but given the choice between breaking myself to make a problem worse, or breaking myself to make someone healthy again, I know which one is going to do less spiritual damage and leave my mind intact, despite the heartache.

Every BA practitioner I've ever met in person has been all ego and fear, no heart, no compassion. They've lost touch with their humanity, and honestly, with themselves and reality at large, and become all about the Power - which, being all twisted, has warped their minds into some weird kind of fantasy-land where everyone who blinks is hurting them and deserves what they get... And almost all of them has been under some form of either Influence or worse. Be careful which doors you leave open - go far enough down that hallway, and suddenly your thoughts, your will, aren't your own anymore... you just THINK they are.

I'm not always very good at being human, and I'm all about the Power - while having MORE can be, in some respects, an absolute Curse, the applications of Power in the situations I often find myself in are absolutely amazing... Having enough power to remove all the chakras and channels of a woman who's dying well before her time because she was attacked by a BA practitioner who shredded her system from the inside up, while keeping her breathing and being able to replace that whole system, laying in a new grid, new channels, new chakras on all the layers including organs, bones, joints, and higher bodies, making all those thousands of cross-connections and careful balances, re-blooming the chakras... in about four hours of work... that's the kind of Power and knowledge I've traded my life for... but... as you see, the application is completely different.

I wade into a situation without considering myself, and my thoughts are all about how can I use the Power to make this better, to help the broken people. All the BA practitioners I've ever met wade into situations thinking "What can I get for myself out of this... how do I prove I'm bigger, badder, stronger than you, and how do I come out on top." They live in a world of anguish and shadows and their minds are full of fighting rats.

However, as I've said... if I actually meet you... it's probably because you're a problem. The BA practitioners who actually know what they're doing and don't NEED to be nailed down... they'll probably never come across someone like me. Who knows... maybe we'd be good friends. *shrugs* It'd be nice if they, too, policed their own...

Please keep in mind... I'm not maligning DA or BA practitioners in any way. The way I see it... the balance is absolutely necessary... WA, BA, DA - all needed... and without all three, that balance, and our ability to have free will with it, would disappear. I am a DA practitioner. I've had to become one, because I DO seem to have a knack for making the crazies come out of the cracks and run at me - and those under my protection - and, well... someone's got to make sure they can't keep hurting random strangers on the street just because "That guy blows bigger bubbles than me..." There are some people who shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, because they're too crazy to realize that's not a tree they're shooting, it's a person...

And I'm sure there are BA practitioners out there who HAVEN'T fallen off the Crazy Wagon on their way to Selfishville... You, the reader, might be one of them. I just haven't met you yet.

The point is... there's a definite price to Magick in general, but with BA it's pretty obvious... and it happens quickly. If you're going to go there... be prepared to pay that price. Be smart about it. Don't be all "I am the Great and Powerful Oz," don't get drunk and put yourself into a position where someone else is going to come along to clean your clock.

NO ONE is the biggest fish in the pond. No one is invulnerable to the consequences of their choices and the actions that arise out of those choices.

And I'm not talking Karma. I'm not sure I believe in Karma. I've never seen it in effect. I've seen truly horrid people live wonderful lives where nothing ever goes wrong, and I've seen truly saint-like people constantly shat on.

I'm just saying magick bites back.

Brightest blessings...
Selqet


"She’s all the unsung heroes who... never quit." ― R. A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land
“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” ― William Shakespeare, Hamlet
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices: First Series


Return to “Black Arts”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest