madgar29 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:12 pm greek stories tell you mortals can become immortal. short and sweet answer.

Aprophis wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:31 pm

madgar29 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:12 pm greek stories tell you mortals can become immortal. short and sweet answer.

If they achieve greatness or are demigods....who achieve greatness (or piss off gods so much they get cursed with immortality, not in a good way). Small things wanting to stay small will forever go unnoticed.
Even for elysium, the heaven for mortals in greek afterlife, you need to be better than that.

And lets not forget, Frodo went west because he had seen too much and grown into something that wasn't like a hobbit. Although in his case it wasn't really a good thing and they sent him west to help him heal as a reward, since he couldn't stay in the Shire anyway.

Also as far as I remember and can actually see from pictures, I did grow from a child into an adult. Aside from seeing any improvement I can achieve as growth. So I disagree with what's been said about growth and helping with said growth.
Theoretically you can say any expansion in any direction is growth. Like my circumference, which grows when I eat lots of good food.

Musicmaiden wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:01 pm Lewk: thanks for your scholarly reply. I stand corrected on the categorization of Morgan Le Fay. According to the store catalog, she is classified as an immortal. I thought immortals and living entities were the same, but thanks for helping me distinguish between them, although if you think about it, logically, it’s a distinction without a difference because immortals never die and living entities are living, so there you go!
I deal in the concrete, not the abstract. Spirituality seems to have a lot of guesswork and speculative theories behind it, and that’s one of the reasons it turns me off. I’m not interested in theoretical frameworks, metaphysical philosophy, archetypes, archetypical ways of relating, or the collective unconscious. If the existence and definition of deities were dependent on various cultural stories told about them, the cultures would be in control of naming and defining a particular deity. However, deities are concrete people who exist regardless of what culture says. Spirits and entities aren’t going to fade away because cultures don’t recognize or acknowledge them. Think about it. If you forget me or decide not to interact with me anymore, I’m still going to exist. I’m not going to disappear just because you and your friends decide not to pay attention to me.
It seems that spirits and entities have become so passive that they will allow earthly cultures to dictate their corresponding associations and ID cards. Translation: If enough worshipers think deities are tied to certain locations, the deities will congregate at those locations because the people have deemed it should be so. By the same token, if one culture conquers and subsequently dominates another culture and renames their deities, those deities will passively accept being reassigned new monikers because they want their people to hold sway over who they are.
But I’m not a doormat or a wallflower. If some culture comes in and decides to rename me and entities expect me to acquiesce to the wishes of the new culture, they are going to be in for quite a surprise because I refuse to cater to the changing whims of people in the new paradigm. I am who I am. My personal identity is fixed and my name is solid. Similarly, if people make pilgrimages to a sacred site because they decided I was associated with it, I’m not going to show up at that venue because I want nothing to do with it. I don’t care if my presence would make people feel better.
Spirits, entities and deities are not Jell-O or jellyfish. They will not appear how you want them to appear to assuage your delicate sensibilities. They are who they are, and if you don’t like it, that’s not their problem. If I’m an Immortal with infinite powers, I’m going to demonstrate it and you’re going to know about it! Whether I’m a spirit a living entity, a deified human, or a full-fledged deity, my requirements for your entry into my exclusive club are the same. I won’t descend to your level. You come up to mine. I won’t give you a helping hand unless I think you deserve it, and the decision to cavort with you humans or avoid you will be on my terms, not yours.
I no longer fall for the New Age delusion that categories and labels are cumbersome obstacles unnecessary to true spirituality. I don’t mind being put in a metaphorical box. Boxes are good. It just depends on which one you want to be in. Spiritual communities think boxes are confining, suffocating and restrictive, but look at a box more closely. Boxes are walled containers with boundaries. They keep unwanted riffraff out. Gated communities are a good thing.
You can’t fit a square peg into a round hole, but there are many different shapes in nature.
Just as there are unambiguous rules and regulations on earth, there are laws governing immortality with a clear yes-or-no answer in spiritual realms of the multi-verse, but if nobody knows what those laws are or claim they are dependent on personal perspective, it doesn’t make for a productive discussion that resolves to the satisfaction of the querier. Earth is orderly and organized. The spirit world should be no different.

Tokala wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:00 pm Hmm I see that what I said was not understood. It is not about actual size, nor race, but what we indentify as small. Meaning characteristics that make us less. And by human, it was meant as the lesser hyper conditioned type most are in this world. Although, I daresay even this clarification might be misunderstood. Anyhow... I'm out.

madgar29 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:11 pm

Musicmaiden wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:01 pm Lewk: thanks for your scholarly reply. I stand corrected on the categorization of Morgan Le Fay. According to the store catalog, she is classified as an immortal. I thought immortals and living entities were the same, but thanks for helping me distinguish between them, although if you think about it, logically, it’s a distinction without a difference because immortals never die and living entities are living, so there you go!
I deal in the concrete, not the abstract. Spirituality seems to have a lot of guesswork and speculative theories behind it, and that’s one of the reasons it turns me off. I’m not interested in theoretical frameworks, metaphysical philosophy, archetypes, archetypical ways of relating, or the collective unconscious. If the existence and definition of deities were dependent on various cultural stories told about them, the cultures would be in control of naming and defining a particular deity. However, deities are concrete people who exist regardless of what culture says. Spirits and entities aren’t going to fade away because cultures don’t recognize or acknowledge them. Think about it. If you forget me or decide not to interact with me anymore, I’m still going to exist. I’m not going to disappear just because you and your friends decide not to pay attention to me.
It seems that spirits and entities have become so passive that they will allow earthly cultures to dictate their corresponding associations and ID cards. Translation: If enough worshipers think deities are tied to certain locations, the deities will congregate at those locations because the people have deemed it should be so. By the same token, if one culture conquers and subsequently dominates another culture and renames their deities, those deities will passively accept being reassigned new monikers because they want their people to hold sway over who they are.
But I’m not a doormat or a wallflower. If some culture comes in and decides to rename me and entities expect me to acquiesce to the wishes of the new culture, they are going to be in for quite a surprise because I refuse to cater to the changing whims of people in the new paradigm. I am who I am. My personal identity is fixed and my name is solid. Similarly, if people make pilgrimages to a sacred site because they decided I was associated with it, I’m not going to show up at that venue because I want nothing to do with it. I don’t care if my presence would make people feel better.
Spirits, entities and deities are not Jell-O or jellyfish. They will not appear how you want them to appear to assuage your delicate sensibilities. They are who they are, and if you don’t like it, that’s not their problem. If I’m an Immortal with infinite powers, I’m going to demonstrate it and you’re going to know about it! Whether I’m a spirit a living entity, a deified human, or a full-fledged deity, my requirements for your entry into my exclusive club are the same. I won’t descend to your level. You come up to mine. I won’t give you a helping hand unless I think you deserve it, and the decision to cavort with you humans or avoid you will be on my terms, not yours.
I no longer fall for the New Age delusion that categories and labels are cumbersome obstacles unnecessary to true spirituality. I don’t mind being put in a metaphorical box. Boxes are good. It just depends on which one you want to be in. Spiritual communities think boxes are confining, suffocating and restrictive, but look at a box more closely. Boxes are walled containers with boundaries. They keep unwanted riffraff out. Gated communities are a good thing.
You can’t fit a square peg into a round hole, but there are many different shapes in nature.
Just as there are unambiguous rules and regulations on earth, there are laws governing immortality with a clear yes-or-no answer in spiritual realms of the multi-verse, but if nobody knows what those laws are or claim they are dependent on personal perspective, it doesn’t make for a productive discussion that resolves to the satisfaction of the querier. Earth is orderly and organized. The spirit world should be no different.

You are Entitled to believe what you want and so it shall be.

In my opinion and experience spirituality is not clear cut. You say immortals will not change for a person. why do you think this?

What if a culture or a group of people have the power to create their own immortal. you do not like the idea of being a co-creator?

I encourage you to go in with an open mind. You will not believe what you experience yourself. I am just saying do not ever limit yourself.

I love the saying what is it worth to you? the King replies "Nothing.... Everything..."


Enjoy your own spirituality forget anyone or anything pushing you into anything else.

Musicmaiden wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:01 pm Lewk: thanks for your scholarly reply.

Musicmaiden wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:01 pm […] If I’m an Immortal with infinite powers, […]

madgar29 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:19 pm topic69933.html

ASH says it really well.