Can humans become immortals, or are they 2 different species incapable of bridging the mortality gap? What do Ash and Magnolia have to say on the subject?
I’m waiting for Morgan Le Fay to arrive, and she is said to be a fairy goddess, a.k.a. a living entity. Living entities are also called Immortals and they are different from spirits.
I know it is not advisable to get information about the paranormal from movies and television, but when I watch the Lord of the Rings film trilogy, I feel like they got a lot of things right, and one of those things is the elves. The High Elves are tall, slender, beautiful, magical, immortal, and in the case of Elrond and arwen, half-Elven. The Silmarillion gives more background on their special circumstances, and they get a choice between whether to inhabit the human or Elven realm. Elves and humans get together. It’s rare but it happens. The human spouse might be granted permission to sail across the sea to the Elven realms to gain immortality but sometimes they could die, and the Elven spouse would go with them beyond the circles of the world.
Morgan Le Fay is found in Arthurian legend and not the Silmarillion, but she is said to be half-human and half-fairy/Elven.

Musicmaiden wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:35 am Can humans become immortals, or are they 2 different species incapable of bridging the mortality gap? What do Ash and Magnolia have to say on the subject?

Maybe. These threads may give better answer:
topic80531.html
topic82076.html
post776398.html

I'm currently not an immortal (as far as I know) but I do know that I'm not an ordinary human, and have become less and less ordinary as the years have gone by, and realize that I've become quite unusual compared to most people. (Side effect is also being more and more offputting to them). So gradually by following my own higher path, against the grain so to speak, I've gradually changed.

What I'm getting at here is that, whatever bloodline you have or whatever energies you harness or whatever you want your life to be like, you can gradually "touch" or even embody such things, and perhaps even immortality, by simply emphasizing all of your qualities that are not ordinary.

Move away from your own smallness, pettiness, weakness, selfisness. Move away from small "human" characteristics and step outside of societal conditioning. Think big, think vast.

Of course all of that involves self awareness and it can take time to really get to know ourselves.

Move away from who you think you are or who others think you are, and move closer to who and what you are capable of being, and figure out what that means to you.

Maybe you'll find out what it takes to achieve what you want along the way, or maybe you'll find something better within you. Who knows?

Hope that helped.

Tokala: your response wasn’t helpful, but thanks for trying.
Do you know who my favorite race is in the Lord of the Rings film trilogy? Hobbits. Do you know why? Because they are small, fly under the radar, and stay above the fray by not concerning themselves with the outside world. They live their life and do their thing, perfectly content to stay away from the big folk. They are eternal homebodies with the exception of a few oddballs.
I don’t want big and vast. I don’t want huge expansiveness. Why are spiritually inclined people so concerned with bigness and vastness anyway? I like small. There’s nothing wrong with smallness. Size doesn’t matter when it comes to immortality. It should be possible to live an enjoyable life and still be immortal. I hate how spirits and entities treat humanity as if humans are puny creatures. Deities are dismissive and claim that humans are petty, but if a deity became human for 24 hours, which they can do because they are powerful, they would see that humans are a respectable race just like them. Deities wouldn’t be so quick to talk down to humans when they set foot on earth. Immortality should be granted to humans who deserve it, big or little.

Musicmaiden, can I ask was it truly necessary to call someone out saying their response wasn’t helpful. It might not have been what you wanted to hear but as far as I can see Tokala answered it to the best of their ability.

Thing is we don’t have all the answers here. We’re all guessing with the facts we have to the best of our abilities and trying to help each other out.

If you don’t like what someone has to offer as an answer, well you’re on the internet. Google it.

As far as my answer I don’t think someone can become immortal, not in this life. But if you think about it our spirits, if you believe in reincarnation are immortal. We aren’t living entities that go on like Morgan le fae.

And all the immortals I’ve interacted with don’t “look down” on humans as puny. Most immortals want to work with us and help us if we’re open to them. That’s been my experience. Perhaps yours is different. Idk, because I don’t know your experience. I’d like to ask where you’re getting this idea though that other entities or immortals think of us as puny? Have they told you this? Because that’s not my personal experience. The ones I’ve worked with have wanted to help me grow, not because I was puny but because I have a human brain which had limited capacity.

My cats brain has more limited functionality than a human brain but I don’t think he’s less than a human. If you’re perceiving it this way then perhaps it’s your bias that’s getting in the way, not how other immortals or deities think of humans.

An addendum to what I just posted - wanting to help a human grow or learn something doesn’t mean they look down on humans. With that line of thinking every teacher to ever exist would be “looking down on” their students.

Gaelic: Tokala wanted to know if the post was helpful and it wasn’t, so that’s what I said. Nothing wrong with that. The poster asked a question and I gave an honest answer.
I don’t do guessing games or speculation, so if nobody knows what they’re talking about, I wish they would just admit it so I can go elsewhere and find respondents that are helpful.
Deities might not call humans puny per se, but if deities claim to want to help you grow because of your limited brain capacity, that qualifies as puny in my book. I would never have the audacity to tell anyone I want to help them grow. It’s condescending. And to use your cat analogy, you might see your cat as less functional in the brain department, but you don’t tell your cat you are going to help it to grow. If you see the cat as human, you will respect the cat and realize that the cat doesn’t need or want growth lessons from you!
Even if teachers don’t look down on their students, it’s still patronizing to me when teachers claim they love to watch people learn and grow. I taught voice lessons for a decade, and I would never have the gall to say I was a vehicle for the growth of my students. It was a job, and if students wanted to learn to sing, they learned to sing. If they didn’t, they didn’t. That was it. It’s no skin off my nose. I might pick and choose who to assist on a case-by-case basis because I like their talent, but I don’t gush about the progress of students, nor do I respect instructors who do so. I find it nauseating when people in the helping professions wax poetic about helping others or watching students learn and grow. People are not flowers or trees.
I was hoping someone was going to dive into the cliff notes version of the Silmarillion and read up on Elven immortality, but I guess that ship has sailed. J.R.R. Tolkien likely knew what he was talking about when he wrote those detailed descriptors, and there’s tons of online message boards, and websites that explain his legendarium in plain English. It’s so all-encompassing that he must have channeled another realm to gain the information contained in his works. I figured since you guys are skilled in telepathy, you would pick up on it, especially since this is a spiritual forum and there’s probably lots of people on here with telepathic communication.
Since human spirits survive death, they are still technically living because they are spirits and people with psychic abilities can communicate with them. By this logic, there’s no such thing as death. That means there’s no differentiation between spirits and living entities because everyone is alive anyway.
Tolkien made a distinction between elves and men in regards to immortality, though, so it makes me wonder if humans can be raised up to become living entities, depending on the circumstances.

I'll intersperse my comments in the body of your post.

But I hope it's useful to say that - as with many theoretical things - some of these things are matters of metaphysical philosophy. People will come down on different sides, according to personal perspective and belief. There may in fact not always be a hard and fast 'real truth' to find either. (But that statement reflects my own perspective.)

That can be frustrating - or not. It can be almost reassuring in a way that some things may never be understood by our logical minds. Some things may always remain beyond human understanding in that sense.

Musicmaiden wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 6:35 am Can humans become immortals, or are they 2 different species incapable of bridging the mortality gap?

Stories about Immortals do include some who were mortal humans then became immortal later. You can see this in different cultures but there's not a standard, universal path to immortality, as far as I can tell, and probably most immortals were not originally mortal (I think). I think the best we can say is that different cultures tell their stories as part of their accumulated mythoi.

I think it depends what we have in mind when we use the word 'race' to describe spirit types. The best I can say is each spirit type is different and there are differences even among immortals. For one, some are deities and others are not.

What do Ash and Magnolia have to say on the subject?

Apart from suggesting a deep search of their articles or the Encyclopedia, or reading the threads Darkwing linked to, I can't say.

I’m waiting for Morgan Le Fay to arrive, and she is said to be a fairy goddess, a.k.a. a living entity. Living entities are also called Immortals and they are different from spirits.

I'm not sure CH describe Immortals as 'living entities'. Maybe that's to distinguish between those that will die (ie LEs) and spirits (who won't). Of course CH (ie Magnolia & ASH) describe Immortals as living forever. The categories Living Entity and Immortal are usually not interchangeable. I've not seen CH use them that way. And I think a good deal of other sellers - not all - follow CH's lead on categories.

CH could always be asked whether their binding of Morgan LeFay is seen by them as falling within their LE category. In the end, labels don't define what a being is. In my opinion labels are only useful in as much as they help clarify things. Sometimes categories, labels, even words don't quite capture everything

I know it is not advisable to get information about the paranormal from movies and television, [...]

That's a really important insight. Many people are so conditioned by the inaccurate concepts of spirits etc that are absorbed from modern culture that they instinctively apply all of that to spirit keeping. One example being the idea that witch=evil. And there are conflicting perceptions too. Some of those have simply emerged because of the commercial need to retell stories in new ways for new audiences. One example being the way the Vampire trope in books and films has evolved during my lifetime.

[...]but when I watch the Lord of the Rings film trilogy, I feel like they got a lot of things right, and one of those things is the elves. The High Elves are tall, slender, beautiful, magical, immortal, and in the case of Elrond and arwen, half-Elven. The Silmarillion gives more background on their special circumstances, and they get a choice between whether to inhabit the human or Elven realm. Elves and humans get together. It’s rare but it happens. The human spouse might be granted permission to sail across the sea to the Elven realms to gain immortality but sometimes they could die, and the Elven spouse would go with them beyond the circles of the world.

Morgan Le Fay is found in Arthurian legend and not the Silmarillion, but she is said to be half-human and half-fairy/Elven.

Yes. JRR Tolkien was a student of anglo-saxon literature - in fact a professor at Oxford, so I think he was immersed in those kind of tales. It's very resonant. But there also seem to be archetypes embedded deep with the human mass subconscious that are easily tapped into, when it comes to elves & fairies, dragons, dwarves and so on. I wonder if sometimes they even assist writers who are tuning into their archetypes.

Hmm I see that what I said was not understood. It is not about actual size, nor race, but what we indentify as small. Meaning characteristics that make us less. And by human, it was meant as the lesser hyper conditioned type most are in this world. Although, I daresay even this clarification might be misunderstood. Anyhow... I'm out.

Musicmaiden wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 2:00 am Tokala: your response wasn’t helpful, but thanks for trying.
Do you know who my favorite race is in the Lord of the Rings film trilogy? Hobbits. Do you know why? Because they are small, fly under the radar, and stay above the fray by not concerning themselves with the outside world. They live their life and do their thing, perfectly content to stay away from the big folk. They are eternal homebodies with the exception of a few oddballs.
I don’t want big and vast. I don’t want huge expansiveness. Why are spiritually inclined people so concerned with bigness and vastness anyway? I like small. There’s nothing wrong with smallness. Size doesn’t matter when it comes to immortality. It should be possible to live an enjoyable life and still be immortal. I hate how spirits and entities treat humanity as if humans are puny creatures. Deities are dismissive and claim that humans are petty, but if a deity became human for 24 hours, which they can do because they are powerful, they would see that humans are a respectable race just like them. Deities wouldn’t be so quick to talk down to humans when they set foot on earth. Immortality should be granted to humans who deserve it, big or little.

You are right and wrong about the hobbits. The hobbits in fact in all of the movies are the biggest and most vast characters. in the books they mostly do stay to themselves but they had armies as well beheading an orc leader even by themselves. many encounters with hobbit forces and orcs have happened.

The race that truly wanted to be left alone through out time were the dwarves. The ones that went behind the walls were considered outsiders. they wanted nothing to do with any of the other races they were always forced. or raided by dragons because of their wealth. they wanted less than even the hobbits.

greek stories tell you mortals can become immortal. short and sweet answer.