Confused and Conflicted

DveneKY · Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:20 am

Spirit relationship is same as any relationship, but these one are true ones, transparent ones and authentic ones? Spirit tasking feels very much like a conditional relationship, kinda like scratch my back i scratch yours. Tasking them feels inauthentic and somewhat like treating them as friend with benefits.

On one hand , if i knew what they want i could give what they want and i could get what i want and definitely this is a conditional transactional relationships that will be shallow as it can be. The whole reason i got spirits was to get help. But there is a fine line of being independent and self-sovereign and being dependent. The message has been clear to me. I feel like I'm alone and back to square one.

Sometimes i think, working with demons would have been better. At least theyd help you despite anything and i could give back something in return, an offering, a pledge a promise or something.

I think the spirits from Creepy Hollows are too pure to be treated as friends with benefits

ASTER · Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:43 am

If I understand you well, you have a dilemma about tasking spirits to help you with daily problems but also you wish not to task them rather just recive intuitive help from them for problems in your life, without asking for help.

Maybe asking them by telling about your needs, likes and expectations can turn things around for you.

Maybe buying their favourite scented candle for your companions or taking them out with you or inviting them to be part of your life will actually helping them to know you more and about you a bit more which, will helps them in a very rewarding way to be more intuitively helpful for you, incase you need something from them one day or to do something big for you.

We are on equal levels with our white and dark arts spirits. They are not our slave and we are not their slave either. We all have freedom to choose and ask and deliver. They do have very fine expertise that they already came with and included in their write up from the conjuration notes.

Tasking regularly a spirit companion is only a happy tasking, when you both bonded deeply and that spirit really wanted to perform a regular dutiful work on a regular basis for you. Which you decide to regularly reward for that special spirit as well.

Only angels are automatically protective without much tasking. And some non social beings from both arts.

Be careful what you wish for. Working with demons and black art spirits will make you a slave without questioning or ever using your free will over them.

Anyway, you do what you feel like is best. But this my 1 cent experience I have as a keeper to offer to you. ☺

Lewk · Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:12 pm

DveneKY wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:20 am Spirit relationship is same as any relationship, but these one are true ones, transparent ones and authentic ones? Spirit tasking feels very much like a conditional relationship, kinda like scratch my back i scratch yours. Tasking them feels inauthentic and somewhat like treating them as friend with benefits.

On one hand , if i knew what they want i could give what they want and i could get what i want and definitely this is a conditional transactional relationships that will be shallow as it can be. The whole reason i got spirits was to get help. But there is a fine line of being independent and self-sovereign and being dependent. The message has been clear to me. I feel like I'm alone and back to square one.

Sometimes i think, working with demons would have been better. At least theyd help you despite anything and i could give back something in return, an offering, a pledge a promise or something.

I think the spirits from Creepy Hollows are too pure to be treated as friends with benefits

I hear what you say, yet there is another way to look at this.

Remember we're not doing medieval spirit summoning and tasking any more. That was typically a transactional, authoritarian, power-over approach....come here, obey me, go and do this or that.

In modern bound spirit keeping, it's about consensual companionship. But the absolutely key thing is our spirits want to help us. It can be frustrating for them to not be told how they can help us. I've often had my spirit companions ask me: what would you like me to do? And, exactly how would you like help with what you want to do? Would you like me to help with that? Do you mind if I help you with that? I think it's frustrating for them if we don't ask them to help us, or fail to give them permission to help us.

And CH say we don't have to given offerings to their spirits..Tasking is not transactional. It can be nice to treat a spirit after it has done something nice for you. But offerings should be delinked from any sense of obligation or duty. A sincere offering is the goal.

There's also another way to look at tasking. There are degrees of tasking. Just having house rules, like harm none, or respect each other, is a form of tasking. Even telling them you don't want them to help you at all (not recommending this) is technically a tasking instruction.

The easiest way to 'task' is to simply share your plans and hopes for the day, week, month, or year ahead and either invite - or give them permission to give - their help.

To my mind even saying 'Hello. Are you there? Would you like to talk to me or spend some time with me? - even a conjuration - is a form of tasking. (The spirit volunteers to take on the role of companion to a keeper.)

At the other end of the scale you have a formal, written task, with clear goals and timescales, given via a special tasking spell.

If you've read this far, you can see I think fears that it's unethical to ask spirits - including nice, good-willed WA spirits - for their help are misplaced. If you think of well- intentioned, kind humans who like to volunteer for charities so they can help people who need it...is it unethical for those people in need to accept or ask for help,? Obviously not.

On 'demons' ... by that really I mean DA beings such as older Immortals, who others have called demons (not malicious, evil BA spirits) . With those kind of 'demons,' it seems that they do tend to be transactional. You may well have to sacrifice or commit to do something, in order to be granted their help. So relationships with them are not simpler or less fraught.

It almost goes without saying that truly BA (intrinsically malicious, inveterate harmdoers) are to be avoided at all costs. They can't safely be bargained with. So that kind of demon is the last thing you'd want tobhave anything to do with.

See also topic20345.html

DveneKY · Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:34 pm

I had plenty reasons to work with demons, when it's transactional it's looked very easy to trade, because our wishes and desires are personal and selfish. I was stopped many times, had 2 spirits from here but forgot about them for months. The last time i tried i was reminded of my spirits and came back to take help from them instead of demons but something doesn't feel right. Dumping on spirits who want companionship and not a 9 to 5 job made me realise it's not their obligation, they lived there life, they passed away, they came here to experience life once more. My take on it was to bond over working together but something doesn't feel right. Humans might be live conditional transactional relationships but with spirits it needs to be transparent, they don't deserve the pressure of my life and problems i believe but i still need help to get things done. Am i doing something wrong here? I don't want to get a license waiting for a green signal like a predator to start manipulating nynway into having my own way. Do spirits really want to help someone who has nothing to give them back, friendship and companionship are really not something you bargain, otherwise those would be a conditional relationship, i have nothing to give if i think about it or maybe i have. I have to change my life conditions, get a better job, change myself to a better version, fix my relationships, earn more money, break bad habits help make new ones, my life situation right now is just about funding. I am definitely making effort long before i had spirit to improve my life situation. I want to study, get a higher degree, get money, build a career but its hard to see a path, luck and miracle i await and my desires are selfish. I had no choice than to come to take help from spirits and magick. I didn't know itd be like this, just as you said i had thought spirit tasking would have been the medieval kind of. Task away and poof, get things done give an offering like you would with any spirit summoning

DveneKY · Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:41 pm

Is it better to meet my needs from grimoires or magick books like gallery of magick or other, do magick from there and don't dump my problems on my spirits, they could live a good life here with me now that they are bound anyways but i haven't been able to do neither. Since i feel taking help from other other spirits i do not trust my own spirits and shying away from building trust and bonds with them

Velca · Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:31 pm

From what I have read, to be quite honest I think this is a time where you need to self reflect on why you have this perspective.

As an outsider, it comes off as having issues with individuals giving their time, energy or doing anything for you quite frankly because you feel guilty. Where does that guilt come from? A lack of value in yourself & what you bring to a relationship (platonic or romantic) without having it be something YOU think is worthy enough. As if your energy, presence, and gratitude aren't enough. Perhaps you had relationships in the past where you were made to feel guilty for someone doing something for you without you "paying them back". We could list an endless amount of reasons for what it COULD be, but only you can truly know the reason.

I am a bit confused as to why you think demons are the only time you could give something in return. Unless the spirits that walk with you are culturally not okay with offerings (djinns are the first to come to mind) there's really no reason that I can currently think of where you couldn't make an offering of a flower that you thought was lovely on your walk, sharing a bit of your food you make, or part of the abundance that your spiritual team asssisted you in getting.

No spiritual being is going to be forced to work with you (I know there are some practices that some people believe in being able to control spirits, or demons specifically; but it just doesn't align with my personal beliefs) If they wanted to walk with someone of a higher status, they would choose that. You speak about how you feel bad for transactional relationships that you see your spiritual team as, but how you're speaking is still just as transactional, just that the spiritual being is the only one benefiting from this luxurious life you exampled and you choosing to self sacrifice for them.

I think it's really important to figure out why you are not seeing yourself as valuable as you are DveneKY. Sometimes you just doing your best is enough. When I was in an extremely toxic, abusive living situation with my cat, Tulip where I was living out of 2 suitcases & a glorified closet and had $400 a month to sustain myself...my spiritual team & cat still stayed by my side (and my cat especially could have chosen to leave considering how often my toxic situation constantly had my cat end up getting outside)

I remember when it was christmas time, and I was eating rice & tomato sauce because it was all I could afford watching netflix on my laptop, sad and lonely as ever & I still promised to my cat and my spiritual team that one day, one day I would be able to show my love to them in the beautiful way I envision it in my head. I had no idea how, heck I didn't even know if I was going to see next week, but I was so convinced that if I did, I would create that reality.

a couple years later, I am now in Florida with more space than I ever have had in my life. I can finally afford creating altars, offerings. My cat freely roams around the rooms while I relax on a hammock by my pool.
Your spiritual team knows your potential more than you ever could. People who truly love you sees your potential. TRUE unconditional love makes you feel like the most valuable crystal in the shop.

You're worth that unconditional love. And just because your story right now up until this point may not feel the most empowering, like any good story, there's always going to be a plot twist at some point. And your spiritual team will ensure of that. When good people do good, all that is going to happen is that good person is going to do more good in the world. When people or spiritual forces do good things for you, it's an investment for not only you, but humanity.

(also acknowledge that it is entirely normal for people and beings to want to help you & do good things for you simply because they WANT to. not everything needs to have this tit for tat, cynnical filter put on it.

CleverGirl · Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:05 pm

Velca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:31 pm From what I have read, to be quite honest I think this is a time where you need to self reflect on why you have this perspective.

As an outsider, it comes off as having issues with individuals giving their time, energy or doing anything for you quite frankly because you feel guilty. Where does that guilt come from? A lack of value in yourself & what you bring to a relationship (platonic or romantic) without having it be something YOU think is worthy enough. As if your energy, presence, and gratitude aren't enough. Perhaps you had relationships in the past where you were made to feel guilty for someone doing something for you without you "paying them back". We could list an endless amount of reasons for what it COULD be, but only you can truly know the reason.

I am a bit confused as to why you think demons are the only time you could give something in return. Unless the spirits that walk with you are culturally not okay with offerings (djinns are the first to come to mind) there's really no reason that I can currently think of where you couldn't make an offering of a flower that you thought was lovely on your walk, sharing a bit of your food you make, or part of the abundance that your spiritual team asssisted you in getting.

No spiritual being is going to be forced to work with you (I know there are some practices that some people believe in being able to control spirits, or demons specifically; but it just doesn't align with my personal beliefs) If they wanted to walk with someone of a higher status, they would choose that. You speak about how you feel bad for transactional relationships that you see your spiritual team as, but how you're speaking is still just as transactional, just that the spiritual being is the only one benefiting from this luxurious life you exampled and you choosing to self sacrifice for them.

I think it's really important to figure out why you are not seeing yourself as valuable as you are DveneKY. Sometimes you just doing your best is enough. When I was in an extremely toxic, abusive living situation with my cat, Tulip where I was living out of 2 suitcases & a glorified closet and had $400 a month to sustain myself...my spiritual team & cat still stayed by my side (and my cat especially could have chosen to leave considering how often my toxic situation constantly had my cat end up getting outside)

I remember when it was christmas time, and I was eating rice & tomato sauce because it was all I could afford watching netflix on my laptop, sad and lonely as ever & I still promised to my cat and my spiritual team that one day, one day I would be able to show my love to them in the beautiful way I envision it in my head. I had no idea how, heck I didn't even know if I was going to see next week, but I was so convinced that if I did, I would create that reality.

a couple years later, I am now in Florida with more space than I ever have had in my life. I can finally afford creating altars, offerings. My cat freely roams around the rooms while I relax on a hammock by my pool.
Your spiritual team knows your potential more than you ever could. People who truly love you sees your potential. TRUE unconditional love makes you feel like the most valuable crystal in the shop.

You're worth that unconditional love. And just because your story right now up until this point may not feel the most empowering, like any good story, there's always going to be a plot twist at some point. And your spiritual team will ensure of that. When good people do good, all that is going to happen is that good person is going to do more good in the world. When people or spiritual forces do good things for you, it's an investment for not only you, but humanity.

(also acknowledge that it is entirely normal for people and beings to want to help you & do good things for you simply because they WANT to. not everything needs to have this tit for tat, cynnical filter put on it.

I just want to say that your story moved me so much. Unfortunately I can relate, but add a toddler to that in addition to the cat. Fast forward two years later: I recently graduated, got a nice job, and support my child and my cat and can now afford to even do great things together with them. (And of course, invite my spirit companions to enjoy too)

My spirit team never let me down once. I have some members that are quieter than others, but even my quietest one actually requested that she wanted a task. She wanted me to give her a way to be helpful because it makes her feel good. It wasn't a hard task - it was just helping give me positive vibes in the morning during a stressful time (graduation project). She felt better knowing she was helping me.

I really think what Velca posted is super important. I think there's a lot to gather from that and to think about.

I also want to point out that for example - one spirit companion of mine has expressed that he is really happy to have me as a companion. He has always been fascinated with humans and interacted with them before, but he wasn't even sure if humans even realised he was around. He's HAPPY to have a human companion that he can spend time with. I think that fact alone is something that makes him happy! I'm sure there are other spirits that likely feel similar.

I also want to add one last part that some spirits are also just pretty protective and non-social. They don't really want that sort of attention or much in return. The longest convo my wraith and I had ended with them just being like "if you really want to give something as a thanks then do so - but only to make yourself feel better. I don't desire anything."

DveneKY · Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:40 pm

I am very grateful for your answers. Thank you all for your support. From now on, I'll do best to take on responsibility and do better for myself and my spirits

ASTER · Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:45 pm

@Velca Hi, OMG, I read your reply in my work break and I had to collect myself because of

suddenly from my eyes.

You are a true overcomer and your spirit companion are awesome like yourself. Thanks so much for your honest sharing. You made my day.

ASTER · Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:48 pm

@Lewk & @Velca had great point and life experiences that I agree myself with.

I do hope you'll work this out for yourself and also get encouraged by others on our forum.

DveneKY wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:41 pm Is it better to meet my needs from grimoires or magick books like gallery of magick or other, do magick from there and don't dump my problems on my spirits, they could live a good life here with me now that they are bound anyways but i haven't been able to do neither. Since i feel taking help from other other spirits i do not trust my own spirits and shying away from building trust and bonds with them

Confused and Conflicted

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