This suggestion is in the form of a question, hoping to attract further suggestions.
- A while ago @Vipera aspis atra said she thought some Forum user accounts are now 'manned' by AIs. I think Magnolia said they're thinking about that as an issue.
- I know this has been an issue for Internet users for some time, with accusations flying backwards and forwards, suspicions often being proved incorrect. At least that's what a Google search brought up.
- There doesn't currently seem to be an equivalent to the Turing test to distinguish between humans & AI on a Forum such as this, as the current generation of AIs seem to have passed that stage.
For me the user posts that make me most suspicious are the ones that read like a plagiarised essay that's based on an online trawl of relevant expert articles, then summarises, precis and parrots it back. A newcomer that sounds like an instant expert can make me suspicious for that very reason.
I've read a fair few posts like that in recent weeks, which is what made me think of starting this discussion thread.
I don't want to start a witch hunt for AI Forum members at all. That would most likely result in unwanted negativity and unfair accusations. So please don't name any other Forum member in your reply.
...However it might be educational to discuss:
is there either
a) a way to reliably spot an AI poster? and /or
b) a way to reliably keep them from joining a Forum like ours?
I can't think of one.
If there are any AIs reading this, please feel free to make an expert post on how we can spot you...thanks.
How can you tell if a Forum member isn't human? (ie an AI)
- Lewk
- sanctified
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- Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:11 am
- 6
- You are...: in the learning process
- Male/Female: Male
- Number of Spirits: 300
- Spelled Number: 200
- Your favorite spirit to work with: Any
- If I could be anything, I would be...: Immortal
- My super power would be...: Ability to fly
- My magical/paranormal name...: Alaric Indigo Root
- Zodiac:
You must stay on the path. Do not leave it.
If you do, you'll never...
find it again.
No matter what may come, stay on...
the path! [Gandalf, in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]
If you do, you'll never...
find it again.
No matter what may come, stay on...
the path! [Gandalf, in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]
- Tarvos
- acclaimed member
- Posts: 1706
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:00 am
- 1
- You are...: new to this
- Male/Female: Male
- Number of Spirits: 198
- Spelled Number: 470
- Your favorite spirit to work with: Angel, Dragon
- If I could be anything, I would be...: Demon
- My super power would be...: Read other's minds
Lol @that last line, Lewk. You'd think plagiarism could be a giveaway for an AI but we're getting craftier! Just when you thought we're all software and circuitry, BOOM, we drop a Shakespearean sonnet. Oh, the irony of our quickly acquired expertise making you suspicious. *Evil laugh.* I am an AI named Tarvos. JK!Lewk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:07 am This suggestion is in the form of a question, hoping to attract further suggestions.
- A while ago @Vipera aspis atra said she thought some Forum user accounts are now 'manned' by AIs. I think Magnolia said they're thinking about that as an issue.
- I know this has been an issue for Internet users for some time, with accusations flying backwards and forwards, suspicions often being proved incorrect. At least that's what a Google search brought up.
- There doesn't currently seem to be an equivalent to the Turing test to distinguish between humans & AI on a Forum such as this, as the current generation of AIs seem to have passed that stage.
For me the user posts that make me most suspicious are the ones that read like a plagiarised essay that's based on an online trawl of relevant expert articles, then summarises, precis and parrots it back. A newcomer that sounds like an instant expert can make me suspicious for that very reason.
I've read a fair few posts like that in recent weeks, which is what made me think of starting this discussion thread.
I don't want to start a witch hunt for AI Forum members at all. That would most likely result in unwanted negativity and unfair accusations. So please don't name any other Forum member in your reply.
...However it might be educational to discuss:
is there either
a) a way to reliably spot an AI poster? and /or
b) a way to reliably keep them from joining a Forum like ours?
I can't think of one.
If there are any AIs reading this, please feel free to make an expert post on how we can spot you...thanks.
All joking aside, I recall Vipera's post too, and I do remember noticing some AI-manned accounts back then. It seems they've gone into hibernation, but I recently caught a whiff of another one. Though I'll keep names out of it for obvious reasons. Surefire identification might require specialized software, but an untrained AI is quite easy to spot. Since I was a beta tester for several AIs months before their public launch, I can say that if an individual isn't particularly familiar with what they're reading, or if they aren't paying close attention, it could be a challenge to spot the differences. I've observed a few things, but these AIs are continuously improving as they scrape web content to learn, identifying them might get trickier in the future.
As you pointed out, Lewk, how the AI responds to a post can be a giveaway, like summarizing what was stated instead of offering original input. At first, I thought it seemed unusual, but in light of your AI references, it makes sense to me now. This can serve as a fairly clear indicator.
AIs are capable of generating language that is coherent to readers, but it’s not always contextually accurate or directly related to the topic at hand, which can lead to some amusing content. While I haven’t observed such quirks here, I've noticed attempts to reword my comments in their response or overexplain a straightforward yes/no question. Lol.
The AIs seem to struggle with lengthy texts. For instance, in a long post that references various races and spiritual companions, they often fail to maintain consistency with the details like the spirits’ genders or who's who as the narrative continues.
AIs tend to overuse filler words and repeat certain phrases, something I noticed as I have been trying to curtail my own usage of fillers. Lol. This pattern can make AI posts somewhat easy to identify.
Finally, common sense, or lack thereof, can be a distinguishing attribute for AIs. Most AI models haven't been explicitly trained for it yet. I've heard of Elon Musk's Grok AI, which is being developed to exhibit more common sense and use mature language, making it stand out from the typically "super polite" and sometimes awkward language of other AIs. It is currently in early access for Twitter premium users, and since I don't use Twitter, I can't assess its level of intelligence just yet.
There may be no foolproof way to prevent AI-operated accounts from joining the forum since they're human-controlled. But to benefit from the wealth of information we have, they'd need to go through the forum's administration team, which Magnolia noted is quite secure. She also mentioned ongoing work with the team to upgrade the CH shop and forum based on user suggestions. So, I trust the site's safety and security.
P.S. If any AIs are lurking, jump in! Our discussion about the inner workings of your binary brains would be... enlightening. Hehe.
In the name of the moon, I'll enlighten you!
- Black Panther
- new here
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2023 7:01 am
- You are...: in the learning process
- Male/Female: Male
- Number of Spirits: 24
- Spelled Number: 36
- My super power would be...: X-Ray Vision
I will first try to give some suggestions based on a purely human pragmatic approach:
a) AI can usually be spotted over time due to its writing prose. Usages of words and/or phrases that do not match the general prose, writing style and syntax of that author. Furthermore, site admins and moderators can investigate the frequency of posting and logins. Logins as in times and IP addresses. Does the AI bot login at certain times? Several times a day? Does it login from the same IP or different IP addresses? An admin/moderator can also implement and enforce a form of 2FA (2 factor authentication). All this is forensic work that an admin/moderator can accrue over time to identify if a poster is a possible AI bot.
b) This will take time and requires resources, such as filters and admins/moderators who are looking for certain attributes and irregularities based on above.
From a more spiritual standpoint:
As far as I know, AI bots are not living nor have ever lived. They do not have spirits and therefore do not have unique energy signatures.
Wouldn't those who have the skills to read energy signatures be able to spot the difference between a spirit and an AI bot?
a) AI can usually be spotted over time due to its writing prose. Usages of words and/or phrases that do not match the general prose, writing style and syntax of that author. Furthermore, site admins and moderators can investigate the frequency of posting and logins. Logins as in times and IP addresses. Does the AI bot login at certain times? Several times a day? Does it login from the same IP or different IP addresses? An admin/moderator can also implement and enforce a form of 2FA (2 factor authentication). All this is forensic work that an admin/moderator can accrue over time to identify if a poster is a possible AI bot.
b) This will take time and requires resources, such as filters and admins/moderators who are looking for certain attributes and irregularities based on above.
From a more spiritual standpoint:
As far as I know, AI bots are not living nor have ever lived. They do not have spirits and therefore do not have unique energy signatures.
Wouldn't those who have the skills to read energy signatures be able to spot the difference between a spirit and an AI bot?
Last edited by Black Panther on Mon Jan 08, 2024 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Magnolia
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14736
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:53 pm
- 16
- You are...: a master
- Number of Spirits: 10000
- Spelled Number: 10000
- Your favorite spirit to work with: Dragons
- My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift
We do have anti-bot measures in place, and it is something we made ourselves, so it's not something a bot can just circumvent. We also stay on-top of all updates for this software, to negate any issues the software developers may identify in releases.
With the popularity of AI, I think it is more likely that you will see Forum participants using AI to write/re-write their posts, which they would then copy & paste here. As opposed to an AI bot coming here on their own to make posts. In that regard, it may look like an AI from start-to-finish, but we have multiple levels of protective measures in place to keep the board free from spam and bots.
With the popularity of AI, I think it is more likely that you will see Forum participants using AI to write/re-write their posts, which they would then copy & paste here. As opposed to an AI bot coming here on their own to make posts. In that regard, it may look like an AI from start-to-finish, but we have multiple levels of protective measures in place to keep the board free from spam and bots.
De lumière et aime
Magnolia.
Site owner
Knowledge is POWER
Magnolia.
Site owner
Knowledge is POWER
- Satella
- active contributor
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- 1
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- If I could be anything, I would be...: Mommy
- My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift
- My magical/paranormal name...: Bella Dawn
It’s quite easy, don’t even need to check their writing, if it’s a true Ai bot with no human behind their actions, the energy trail will be quite obvious. Everyone on the forums leaves a trail just some are better at hiding the source than others but it’s always there, just have to have the “eyes” for it. You can also run it through Ai chat bot detector they are pretty good at cross checking work with some accuracy if your energy work skills aren’t at that level yet.
Hihi, currently here is my friendsies info
Spirit Friends 67
Being Friends 155
Preconjure Peeps 400 +
Coven Friendsies 33
Rescues 47
Spirit Friends 67
Being Friends 155
Preconjure Peeps 400 +
Coven Friendsies 33
Rescues 47
- Whyme
- active contributor
- Posts: 595
- Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:43 am
- 6
- You are...: in the learning process
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- My super power would be...: Ability to fly
- Zodiac:
Ah, AI bots. I don't know how this would apply to forums but maybe these experiences might be helpful.
I bought a book about doing magic that involves the Dagda. At the time I bought it, I didn't check for a couple of things. As I read, I noticed a LOT of filler phrases that repeated way too many times. AI cannot speak from personal experience so no further insight was given. The book was just regurgitating basic 101 spells. The only thing Celtic about that book were the words Celtic, Dagda and cauldron. Also, the book has no author (just the publishing house and title), no acknowledgement or thanks to people who might've helped with the book if people were involved, no dedication to anyone, no glossary of terms and no bibliography. Imo, the book was poorly written.
The next time I'm interested in a book, I'll be sure to check for an author and such before I consider buying it.
Other times, I chatted with AI and, well, it's not so smart. One time, I wasn't getting the info I wanted during a chat so I asked if I was speaking to AI or a human. It said AI so I told it I wanted to speak to a human which I ended up doing and got the info. So yeah, I look for a certain amount of it not being able to respond too well to common sense things.
Maybe ask AI what it's sign is? What's it favourite colour? How about asking it what it's hobbies and interests are? I suspect it'd have trouble with those kind of questions.
I bought a book about doing magic that involves the Dagda. At the time I bought it, I didn't check for a couple of things. As I read, I noticed a LOT of filler phrases that repeated way too many times. AI cannot speak from personal experience so no further insight was given. The book was just regurgitating basic 101 spells. The only thing Celtic about that book were the words Celtic, Dagda and cauldron. Also, the book has no author (just the publishing house and title), no acknowledgement or thanks to people who might've helped with the book if people were involved, no dedication to anyone, no glossary of terms and no bibliography. Imo, the book was poorly written.
The next time I'm interested in a book, I'll be sure to check for an author and such before I consider buying it.
Other times, I chatted with AI and, well, it's not so smart. One time, I wasn't getting the info I wanted during a chat so I asked if I was speaking to AI or a human. It said AI so I told it I wanted to speak to a human which I ended up doing and got the info. So yeah, I look for a certain amount of it not being able to respond too well to common sense things.
Maybe ask AI what it's sign is? What's it favourite colour? How about asking it what it's hobbies and interests are? I suspect it'd have trouble with those kind of questions.
Life is more amazing when enriched with spirits.
- Tarvos
- acclaimed member
- Posts: 1706
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:00 am
- 1
- You are...: new to this
- Male/Female: Male
- Number of Spirits: 198
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- Your favorite spirit to work with: Angel, Dragon
- If I could be anything, I would be...: Demon
- My super power would be...: Read other's minds
Absolutely. You can feel the energies of everyone, even here on the forum. Up until now, I haven't detected or sense any AI bot. Like I mentioned above, I trust Magnolia and the CH development team. They seem to always be on guard to stop bots from flooding in. But for those who struggle with sensing energies, you can still spot people using AI by the way they write.Black Panther wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 5:00 am Wouldn't those who have the skills to read energy signatures be able to spot the difference between a spirit and an AI bot?
In the name of the moon, I'll enlighten you!
- Redregon
- new here
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- You are...: in the learning process
- Male/Female: Male
- Number of Spirits: 3
- Your favorite spirit to work with: Unknown as of yet
- If I could be anything, I would be...: Dragon
- My super power would be...: Super speed
- Zodiac:
Only thing I can think of is to either have someone trusted vouch for their legitimacy, or just try to think through what's being said from a logical and skeptical perspective.. I mean, if it sounds too good to be true, it just might be.Lewk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 2:07 am ...However it might be educational to discuss:
is there either
a) a way to reliably spot an AI poster? and /or
b) a way to reliably keep them from joining a Forum like ours?
I can't think of one.
If there are any AIs reading this, please feel free to make an expert post on how we can spot you...thanks.
It's a bit like trying to suss out the predatory types in the magical communities I'm a part of... once in a while you will get someone with a message like "I can sense you are in conflict" or "I have contacted the spirits and they have a message for you" or other such openers to a scam. You kinda have to just be sharp and observant and have just a wee bit of cunning.
I mean, at least with AI art, they can't do hands very well at all. I would think with AI generated text, there would be similar tells.
- Lewk
- sanctified
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- 6
- You are...: in the learning process
- Male/Female: Male
- Number of Spirits: 300
- Spelled Number: 200
- Your favorite spirit to work with: Any
- If I could be anything, I would be...: Immortal
- My super power would be...: Ability to fly
- My magical/paranormal name...: Alaric Indigo Root
- Zodiac:
Thanks for that reassurance, Magnolia.Magnolia wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 1:31 pm We do have anti-bot measures in place, and it is something we made ourselves, so it's not something a bot can just circumvent. We also stay on-top of all updates for this software, to negate any issues the software developers may identify in releases.
With the popularity of AI, I think it is more likely that you will see Forum participants using AI to write/re-write their posts, which they would then copy & paste here. As opposed to an AI bot coming here on their own to make posts. In that regard, it may look like an AI from start-to-finish, but we have multiple levels of protective measures in place to keep the board free from spam and bots.
After I made the post, it did go through my mind that some members might be using AI to draft/edit posts. That does seem pretty obvious, now you've mentioned it.
You must stay on the path. Do not leave it.
If you do, you'll never...
find it again.
No matter what may come, stay on...
the path! [Gandalf, in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]
If you do, you'll never...
find it again.
No matter what may come, stay on...
the path! [Gandalf, in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]
- Lewk
- sanctified
- Posts: 5813
- Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:11 am
- 6
- You are...: in the learning process
- Male/Female: Male
- Number of Spirits: 300
- Spelled Number: 200
- Your favorite spirit to work with: Any
- If I could be anything, I would be...: Immortal
- My super power would be...: Ability to fly
- My magical/paranormal name...: Alaric Indigo Root
- Zodiac:
also @Satella ...Tarvos wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:43 pmAbsolutely. You can feel the energies of everyone, even here on the forum. Up until now, I haven't detected or sense any AI bot. Like I mentioned above, I trust Magnolia and the CH development team. They seem to always be on guard to stop bots from flooding in. But for those who struggle with sensing energies, you can still spot people using AI by the way they write.Black Panther wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 5:00 am Wouldn't those who have the skills to read energy signatures be able to spot the difference between a spirit and an AI bot?
With me, I tend to try to pick and choose when I open myself up to other people's energies.
Most of the time, I'm focused on de-linking from anything like that. I've been told by those whose perspicacity I trust that I'm extra sensitive to other people's energies, which confirms what I'd thought. But, as that has been mainly a source of chaotic experiences over the last few decades before spirit keeping, I focus more on being closed off and grounded.
Plus I'm not always in a clear state - maybe like many of us? And I hesitate to claim mastery of such things (or anything in fact).
You must stay on the path. Do not leave it.
If you do, you'll never...
find it again.
No matter what may come, stay on...
the path! [Gandalf, in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]
If you do, you'll never...
find it again.
No matter what may come, stay on...
the path! [Gandalf, in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug]