Lampropeltis wrote:I like this idea. There's the educational section on protection, but it's not the easiest to find, and unless someone is having or has had their a** kicked, or has heard about it happening from a source they trust and believe, protection may not be at the top of their mind.

There's the risk of melodrama, and it would probably be best to have solid articles stickied (as to prevent them from being buried under umpteen queries about the 'potential evil of werewolves' and 'what's a circle' as has happened to Magnolia's marvelous articles in the Spirit Keeping section) but it may reduce the number of people who get in trouble, thereby reducing the number of people needing bailing out, and will give DIY'ers a few leads on preventative and even responsive measures.

gahhhh!!! darn MIA edit button. and i do agree on this as new members probably don't even know that magnolia has written articles on what they are asking because they got buried under the initial intent of the section. so that's why i thought maybe a read only section, but knowing that questions will want to be asked that's where it becomes tricky.

maybe they can make it a read only post and question in relation to the post section seperate from it

Good idea Dark. The section should be called WTF Happened So it stands out. :lol: There is like no way anyone can dig through my posts to read through my learning process. But yeah I started out as "one of those people."

There are a few members who got out of their mess and some that are still suffering. I think I may have been the few who got out of it. It's not a pleasant feeling to have a barage of spirits zapping you every night. Soooooo....not fun. Till this day, I don't know if it was the seller being mad I returned it, the spirits I returned, the invocation ritual or a latch on. But it was a sucky feeling. And I didn't even buy dark anything. I can only hope Nebby gives me retribution.

Killarican wrote:But there ussually is an ongoing trend of the "It's Not Evil, It's Misunderstood!" argument. So If one's get attacked maybe from an unbound or possibly 1 of there own bound spirits(Not ruling this out.) The keeper themselves would often be frowned down upon as if they've done something wrong.

I feel some forum member(Not naming names.) give the impression that they would be more forgiving towards a 'demonic' entity then they would Hitler or a Serial killer. Forget the keeper who got attacked, worry about the poor 'innocent' spirit!

I am with you Killa. Thank you for being one of the few who has this kind of sensitivity. You represent for alot of unspoken member who are probably hiding because of shame or worse tolerating bad luck because it must be normal to have a series of bad things happen.....

My experience is if you bring anything in and you start experiencing a series of not so good things...get rid of it. One seller did not believe her good luck charm was causing me a series of bad things, but why is it that when I returned it for something else everything went back to normal if not better.

Be honest with yourself. It's one thing if the spell doesn't work. It's another if it brings you havoc. Don't hesitate to depart from it!

AngelDust wrote:Good idea Dark. The section should be called WTF Happened So it stands out. :lol: There is like no way anyone can dig through my posts to read through my learning process. But yeah I started out as "one of those people."

There are a few members who got out of their mess and some that are still suffering. I think I may have been the few who got out of it. It's not a pleasant feeling to have a barage of spirits zapping you every night. Soooooo....not fun. Till this day, I don't know if it was the seller being mad I returned it, the spirits I returned, the invocation ritual or a latch on. But it was a sucky feeling. And I didn't even buy dark anything. I can only hope Nebby gives me retribution.

Killarican wrote:But there ussually is an ongoing trend of the "It's Not Evil, It's Misunderstood!" argument. So If one's get attacked maybe from an unbound or possibly 1 of there own bound spirits(Not ruling this out.) The keeper themselves would often be frowned down upon as if they've done something wrong.

I feel some forum member(Not naming names.) give the impression that they would be more forgiving towards a 'demonic' entity then they would Hitler or a Serial killer. Forget the keeper who got attacked, worry about the poor 'innocent' spirit!

I am with you Killa. Thank you for being one of the few who has this kind of sensitivity. You represent for alot of unspoken member who are probably hiding because of shame or worse tolerating bad luck because it must be normal to have a series of bad things happen.....

My experience is if you bring anything in and you start experiencing a series of not so good things...get rid of it. One seller did not believe her good luck charm was causing me a series of bad things, but why is it that when I returned it for something else everything went back to normal if not better.

Be honest with yourself. It's one thing if the spell doesn't work. It's another if it brings you havoc. Don't hesitate to depart from it!

haha i think WTF happened is a great thread title.

i also agree with you and killa.if something has gone wrong with you and your spirits you shouldn't be afraid to come forward for help or worry that you will be made fun of.

Chaos wrote:

dilvsy wrote:I too, think this would be a great idea..and also, maybe not have people who THINK they are experts spout off their advice, but have the TRUE experts be the ones to give some good advice, and tips. :thumbup:

Dilvsy how can anyone on an Internet forum tell who's an expert and who's a poser?

Chaos, kindly do not put words in my mouth, thank you.

Excellent post Alex, and I'm glad you're back.

One option might be for people to submit articles, case studies, etc that can be stickied, (I'm talking, ten, maybe twenty stickies in the same fashion as the lower section of the 'Messages & Updates' area) and then random discussions can take place under that so the good stuff doesn't get buried.

Maybe leaving the stickies open, but having the spam rule do double duty and having a hard hearted moderator with an iron hand keeping them clean by deleting or moving (extremely) off topic or already answered aspects. (such as 'What does a Volkh do?' after several paragraphs about them, or 'How do I use a Bridging stone?' or 'I love my fill-in-the-blank')

Dark Abyss wrote:

CAIYROS wrote:OK...but then we need to be very careful about categories:

Dark Arts spirits have a right to exist, as do Satanists, and the Petwo Rites of Vodu, Goetia, and so on. And I would expect that people involved in Dark Arts as well as many others would have to admit that the 3 Abrahamic groups of classic Christianity, classic Judiasm, and classic Islam....in their peculiar need to attack other religions and occult groups as "Dark" ( a bad word - as the greatest Egyptian God - AMUN - was both Dark & Invisible) - are, they, themselves, creating issues of psychic violence and hurting people as well.

So, the biggest issue here is classification, and dealing with the understanding that classifications in areas like these can be ephemeral and fluid..

I think it might be easier and more balanced to read Eliphas Levi's Transcendental Magic..

Other problems that occur are: The main spiritual entity of the Knights Templars is Baphomet...Dark? or Non-Dark? Opinion? or Proof?



C-

we're not talking about religion at all. what i'm talking about are entities that trick, drain and feed off of others, and malevolent unbounds causing harm and damage. the warning signs, personal stories (not "i know a friend of a friend" type scenario's) and what was done to get rid of them (spirits, smudgings,spells) . just so people who are new to spirit keeping understand that keeping spirits isn't always going to be rainbows and moonbeams. that sometimes even the most cautious person (for example someone who only keeps WA spirits) might get attacked from an outside source and think it's their spirits turning on them.

maybe a disclaimer stating that most DA spirits would never harm their keeper. these are just some extreme examples of things gone wrong and how it was handled.

The disclaimer seems to be a great idea.I agree with Caiyros that DA's should be made available to those who choose to work with DA's. But maybe adding an educative section to both the stores, the listings, and this forum. Would be wise..They should also make these sections stand out. I do hope all of us will listen though.

I believe it or not..WILL LISTEN TO WARNINGS AND DISCLAIMERS..If a practitioner warns me I know better. It will be a buy at your own risk type of deal. :nice::

DarkAddictions wrote: The disclaimer seems to be a great idea.I agree with Caiyros that DA's should be made available to those who choose to work with DA's. But maybe adding an educative section to both the stores, the listings, and this forum. Would be wise..They should also make these sections stand out. I do hope all of us will listen though.

I believe it or not..WILL LISTEN TO WARNINGS AND DISCLAIMERS..If a practitioner warns me I know better. It will be a buy at your own risk type of deal. :nice::

It's not so much objecting to 'dark' beings being dark, or people keeping them, so much as finding ways to repel beings that want to parasitize, drive mad, or kill you. (or in the case of semi-friendly bound beings, learning to stay in charge, avoid collateral damage, and not end up the Omega or be knocked for too much of a loop.)

It's been said multiple times in multiple places, but it is worth repeating and the section would certainly have to have a "Bad things can happen, but odds of your werewolf devouring your soul are infinitesimally small" sort of disclaimer.

As for DA beings needing disclaimers, the store section is called Dark Arts (reasonably dramatic), side effects are warned about, methods of subduing are refered to in the store and listed in the encyclopedia, often unpleasant habits the being had in life are listed in both the store and the encyclopedia, and they're described as a responsibility.

But from the time we learned to walk, we've been inundated with common sense disclaimers such as 'don't stick these beans up your nose' 'this themepark ride moves' and 'don't drive with this sunshade on the windshield' that we learn to ignore them. And then when arriving at CH, the disclaimers aren't to protect themselves from litigation, but because they mean them. And I confess that realization was a surprise for me. :lol:

Lampropeltis wrote: But from the time we learned to walk, we've been inundated with common sense disclaimers such as 'don't stick these beans up your nose'

yeah that didn't work with me and that's why all cracker jack toys are now mini joke books and rub on tattoos. you're welcome :silly: