You asked if someone knew for a fact that they had a demon, etc. Page 3.

I don't debate here, until that post, but thanks for the comprehensive account of my trouble with it!

Childish remarks? Excuse me?

Terror Misu wrote:

Rasputin wrote:

Jennypenny wrote:To be clear, I meant:

Yay! for the owners giving us such a forum, for free!
Boo! to the people who enjoy wars with the people who express themselves
....

And a few hearts for rasputin
You are braver than I.

Jenny - if you can't take a difference in opinion, might be good to hit the back button.

Thats my point jenny.
We should not have to hide the fact that we are sane, normal people who keep demons with no problems. Not sure about you, but there are many different spirits entities here and I have no issues...
I guess if I lose it in a month and go postal and beg for help because my life is a mess everyone can take it as a learning experience.
But if things are even keel...or better....take that as the same.

Personally I don't think you or anyone should have to hide it... but if you honestly think keeping requires some type of motivated defense on your part, then may I suggest that you might not be cut out for BA as you claim? And for the record, I wouldn't want anything to happen to you, thus if things are even keel, I say GOOD... but as of right now, I'm not convinced you are keeping beings that fit the classic definition of BA.

who's definition?
oh THE definition...btw who does have the last super duper final say?

ANyone who does anything with a passion will get defensive when the same people jump in and try and tell them the same things...regardless of what is thoughtfully laid out.
what if the same group of BA Christians came in and told you spirit keeping was wrong evil and that you would burn i hell for doing this...over and over again.
After all the good book says its wrong. That is the only source of right and wrong right? How dare you have an opinion that differs?
Then anytime someone had a problem (perhaps received spirit they should not have cloaked as an elf..or were involved in something over their head) the same person or group came on shaking a finger saying "told ya so"?
Anyone would get tired of it.
I think magnolia practices tolerance for others views even though she might not agree. Anytime I see her on a thread, she sits on a fence and shares her opinion in a well thought out way. I have no qualms with her, in fact her opinions are welcome.
You really seem on attack mode most of the time when people dont fit into your own way of thinking.
Maybe you are above all mortals and you dont feel this way.
I know I do...and I havent been here all that long.
Tell you what...why dont we respectively agree to disagree?
Is that possible?
Or would you rather I went back to shutting up about anything this board considers black for your own comfort? Is that the only outcome that will make you feel better?

This is just my 2cents..Take it or leave it,whichever fine by me...

For classification...I don't really follow anyones classification..I feel out the energy for myself...I don't think anyone can really know a classification until they feel it for themselves rather than following another..I'm not saying to follow one is wrong..I just prefer to see and feel for myself to decide the energy..As i see listings for spirits under WA..when some should be DA..And vise versa..Fae to be exact...I don't want to derail this thread so i may make a separate post,but you get the gist of it...everyone has their own classification..Ash and mags have theirs,i have mine,and so forth..

Somethings people consider DA i consider grey..Somethings people consider BA i think are yet again grey or DA..Because i feel the energy for myself to decide...again nothing wrong by going with someone else's classification....

It seems people only want to bring up the situations where peoples lives have gone to crap by inviting certain entities into their homes...and the ones who have zero issues are never used as examples.

I see this sometimes..Very rare do i see another's idea..It would be lovely if others would share,even if you think no one will listen there are plenty who enjoy the darker nature of things..The problem is too many of the "wrong" people who just grab the spirit without any knowledge whatsoever will be reading the good reviews of demons...there can be good,there can be bad..Overtime you will learn if it stays such...

Me personally..I don't go for the beginner demon discussions..They may have valid points and i may understand some..But i don't really believe in a beginner demon..I'll listen and try to stay quiet..but thats just me..

Am I only supposed to post about demons to warn people or to say captain howdy won't leave me alone?

I understand this statement completely,and i understand the opposed as well...I can understand it is frustrating when you want to talk about something and feel that you will be put down either way...I will sometimes hit report on my posts to see if anyone has.. I'm not upset by it as i can be a <<Removed by Mod>> disturber There was 1 on my BA thread..fine if someone reported it,they may disagree with what i said,as I'm sure i may disagree with what they say...the point I'm trying to make by bringing this up is others will agree and others will disagree...some don't want to hear truths and some do want to know truths..either way truth can be a very scary thing to some..

Illeana3 wrote:
Even demons come in shades of darkness.

True to me..And some may disagree..Fine..I go by whats true to me,or hard cold facts and knowledge from legends and stories of those who have worked with these for some time..Legends being passed down for centuries....And cold proof they know what their talking about..

of course someone who reads your post will take it literally...especially someone who is new to a place and doesnt know you.

This can happen a lot,and stirs arguments quite a bit..As no one really knows one another unless they've met and actually conversed in RLT (real life time) Also sarcasm can easily be turned out to be rude remark by someone who doesn't know you,and if they do..well thats another story... ? humor can get very confusing on the Internet if someone doesn't try to see past the possibilities of a negative remark...

But you dragged ash and mags into it and it turned a bit negative

A lot of people bring Ash and Mags into it because a lot of people go by their info...Whether or not they go solely on their knowledge only cant say much with that myself.. People go by what feels right to them..

Rasputin wrote:
If some spirits are sold for revenge (wraiths etc) why are people down on demon keepers used for the same purpose?

I tried bringing this up once,not with wraiths but spells and other entities.spirits......Went to h3ll..Though i could have worded it more friendly so my own fault there... I think with this its what they Classify the revenge..If its BA intent or DA..If its DA its fine,its only DA purpose...If its BA its frowned upon...Me? I see it as both are getting what they want,DA is to choose between right and wrong..They chose to be darker...To sometimes torment with their own sadness and dish it back...not saying thats wrong,but you can do that with BA too..Not everything BA is demons,blood,hatred,and harm..And Here people classify BA as only using it to harm..I can quote people but this will be longer than necessary...Ba is not only used for harming someone,Instead of asking someone who is against it and doesn't practice ask someone who does...but if you do ask someone who does,its always the most unstable person to answer..ask someone who knows their stuff down pat,not someone who's just on revenge and harm..theres more to BA then that,and what people may think sometimes..

Because no one on this board got attacked by a wraith and had a month long thread of no one being able to help him till the very end.

*nod* I can see how this may make demons an even more undesirable spirit/entity to keep...But sometimes you have to look at the person who is saying it..Did they classify it as a demon or did someone say it was...Was the person who told such person attacked know what they were talking about? If this is the thread I'm thinking of either way the outcome was most unfortunate,But it could have very well been a Darker DA...But everyone has their own classification so to them it may very well have been a demon...

Or would you rather I went back to shutting up about anything this board considers black for your own comfort? Is that the only outcome that will make you feel better?

NO ONE should have to do that,NO ONE needs to be quite about their preferences..this is an open forum..Cant really say much and do the speech as i don't usually "do" the speech But will quote somethings...

An Open Forum means that we welcome all ideologies, theories, beliefs, and thought processes. It means that we welcome open posting that provokes thought, discussions, and debates.

We believe that discussing all sides of a topic means that everyone involved will be better informed & educated on the topic at hand, and thus the world around them. I would rather have something be said & have the opportunity to respond with my own opinions (whether I'm agreeing or disagreeing) then to not have anything said at all. It's far better to welcome open thoughts & discussions, and have the chance to have an open discussion, then to be close-minded and to shut out everything but what has already been settled in our own minds.

And Agree to disagree
I agree with all posts here as i see it both sides

what if the same group of BA Christians came in and told you spirit keeping was wrong evil and that you would burn i hell for doing this...over and over again.

You're not going to burn in hell but there are pitfalls. There are attacks. Nightmares. Bad luck. BUT there is also prophetic dreams and windfalls. Welcome to life. He who makes wise decisions based on others experience gets to profit. He who in the face of experience denies, gets to fall. I can't say what you should do, but some who did, have fallen and fallen hard. But then you got to take in account the statistics, like one out of 5 demon keepers, etc. How many demons before they lost control? Who did they buy from?

Everytime a thread is written it gets pushed down by responses. So overtime what was important becomes lost with all the other threads. But if you dig you will find it. I recommend starting in the What Went Wrong section and do a search.

Also there are those who have been burnt by demons, that aren't going to talk about it because they are embarrassed or don't want the seller to come after them. But practioners who have to undo the damage know very well what kind of bad luck and chaos they are capable of. Again, no one here has been attacked by a wraith and gargoyl. When I say attack I don't mean a defense move but a constant daily bother until your eyebrows fall off, getting choked at night, and scratches all over your body. And these are the owners not the receivers. Sure you can cause a little bother to your enemy, but you could also get it as well. 2cents

But know this demon or no demon, those with a black heart that allows others to affect his emotions in a negative way only attract negative circumstances and missed out on all the good. Those who let go get to move forward and enjoy the riches of this existance.

Na'rayah Earth wrote:

Dark Mother Earth wrote:Not all BA attacks on humans are demons , what about the ugly bad arse human spirits that set out to destroy people's lives , and try to pass themselves off as demons .

No one is disputing the fact that there are other nasty BA beings. Though, Human Spirits that are the nasty type would be considered DA still. YES there are plenty of all sorts of nasty DA beings out there too, we are simply discussing the topic at hand, BA (specifically Demons) and DA

Dark Mother Earth wrote:I believe a spirit is only as good or bad as is keepers intention

I agree with this, only to a certain degree.

If you bring a FULL ON BA DEMON (the type classified as BA by Ash and Magnolia) then I can asure you, it will not be placed in the "only as good or bad as it's keepers intention" label. A full on BA Demon is just that, FULL BA, it cannot CHOOSE to be anything BUT malicious, no matter how good your own intentions are. It will find a way to manipulate you.

Dark Mother Earth wrote:truth is both are DA , and demons are angels , yes dark ones.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here.

There are Fallen Angels, which are Dark Angels, and then there are Demons, which are just that...Demons. Lucifer, yes, is a Fallen Angel.

The Demons I had, were born from their own realm, they were never Angels.

Plus, Angels (apart from reproducing with humans at one stage, but that went against God's orders) do not reproduce. Demons on the other hand, DO reproduce.

Na'rayah is someone who can attest to the use of demons for good. I'd encourage her at this point to start a separate thread discussing the ways in which demons and their powers can be used for something other than malicious purposes. I think she was the one to educate me on the fact that they can be used to destroy cancer cells. I'd love to hear more about it.

Jennypenny wrote:You asked if someone knew for a fact that they had a demon, etc. Page 3.

I don't debate here, until that post, but thanks for the comprehensive account of my trouble with it!

Childish remarks? Excuse me?

Do you need me to repost what you said or can you let it go? Gees.

Don't take my words out of context. I said, how do they know - if they go by the classic definition of BA, that they have a demon and not just a DA being on the darkest spectrum of DA? Those were my words.. meaning, explain to me, because there are implications for practice. That your beings are loyal to you and give you no problems in my mind make them more DA than BA, if we go by this definition. Nowhere did I ask for fact, meaning, a definitive hard wrong vs. right. It's all subjective, we've already stated. What you're saying doesn't make sense to me. :daze:

NoctemAeternus wrote:Ohhhh Gaaaawwwwwddddddddd *wails in agony*

Why always the same arguments D:

*whines over same sh*t different day*
Just for Terror - Metaphysical World Problems

Forgive me if it turned into something different upon recent progression, I couldn't read all the way through.. just so tiring.. we discuss this exact subject matter near-constantly, and I want to respond but it's exhausting to respond to the same over and over. Don't even know where to begin.

Now that i'm done complaining, carry on. Lol.

HAHAHA! :

Rasputin wrote:who's definition?
oh THE definition...btw who does have the last super duper final say?

Frankly, we've already agreed that it's subjective... which leads me to want to know more about the other perspective, if one wants to say that a demon is DA, then what constitutes BA then? What are the differences, if any? This is for people who feel demons are DA, not BA.

ANyone who does anything with a passion will get defensive when the same people jump in and try and tell them the same things...regardless of what is thoughtfully laid out.

As I've already said, I understand, as I've been there. But, ya know, plenty of people have disagreed with me and laid it out thoughtfully and I've been annoyed but not to where I take it so personally that I start launching an analysis of their reasons for responding in the first place, etc etc.

After all the good book says its wrong. That is the only source of right and wrong right? How dare you have an opinion that differs?

I'm not Christian, so this is moot and this type of rationalizing just takes us farther away from what I initially tried to discuss with you.

I think magnolia practices tolerance for others views even though she might not agree. Anytime I see her on a thread, she sits on a fence and shares her opinion in a well thought out way. I have no qualms with her, in fact her opinions are welcome.

Magnolia has seen people like you and me debate these issues ad nauseum, that's why she just chills Also, I can only speculate but she comes from such a different level in terms of her understanding of the universe and how all these forces interrelate with each other... she's seen people who wield BA responsibly as well as the other spectrum where they get into serious trouble and have to beg for her help or someone else and Ash has to come in as the clean-up crew... so she's not gonna say one is better than the other.

You really seem on attack mode most of the time when people dont fit into your own way of thinking.
Maybe you are above all mortals and you dont feel this way.

I'm getting tired of you making this continually about ME or YOU. This is larger than you or me. This should be about where we differ in our ideology - the sooner you get that into your head, the sooner we can actually get something out of this. You know why these threads get nothing accomplished? Because people are touchy on all sides and they can't suspend their emotions long enough to get anything really exchanged.

I know I do...and I havent been here all that long.

No, you haven't... so let me be frank with you... if you come onto an forum such as this where there is a broad variety of opinions, expect to have people debate and challenge you out of your comfort zone. It's really hard not to take things personally but if you approach it from the perspective that they aren't out to attack YOU, the person, but to deconstruct your ideas in a way that makes palatable sense to them, then you won't be going to bed in a pi$$y mood and getting up and writing more pi$$y responses about yourself and your wounded self. I keep trying to steer this back to my thoughts regarding DA vs. BA to keep it constructive and you keep leveling clinical analyses on my reasons for wanting to dissect these ideas. Seriously?

Tell you what...why dont we respectively agree to disagree?
Is that possible?
Or would you rather I went back to shutting up about anything this board considers black for your own comfort? Is that the only outcome that will make you feel better?

I've told you repeatedly that your opinion is welcomed and respected... I get the feeling you want agreement, otherwise it gets your panties twisted. I don't want you to feel like you can't talk about yourself... but when you put your feelings out there and talk about other people who can't allegedly look at it from your way and support demon keeping, you must know someone will address your assumptions... if someone claims this isn't a demon-friendly forum, you must know that someone will say something to explain... and deepen the conversation like I did when I simply asked whether or not the beings in your keep really are black, versus just really dark... It was a chance for you to talk about the flipside, that perhaps demons can be DA... etc... but rather than go there, you made it about ME, YOU, ad nauseum.

Hmmm,
I would give my opinion and inquire further, but it would be impossible to do so without offending someone. Thus limiting my capacity for understanding. Ever wonder why there are kids in class that don't ask questions? Ever wonder how free speech is limited?
My response to this entire thread
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/ ... esting.gif
*fades into the background*