Does CH ever make exceptions?

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Charles_Odinforce
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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Charles_Odinforce » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:27 pm

May I ask if you are referring to the Sluagh in particular here please or extreme DA in general that are not really suitable for binding?


Making a more general assessment of the hows and whys from a practitioners point of view on the subject. Not referencing a specific classification of being in that other than to use the Goetic as an example.


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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Anteros » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:16 pm

Charles_Odinforce wrote:
May I ask if you are referring to the Sluagh in particular here please or extreme DA in general that are not really suitable for binding?


Making a more general assessment of the hows and whys from a practitioners point of view on the subject. Not referencing a specific classification of being in that other than to use the Goetic as an example.

OK, thank you.


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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Empress M » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:24 pm

I don't personally adhere to the CH encyclopedia anymore. I believe Ash and Magnolia tend to define BA on the forum as beings of pure darkness and destruction who *only* possess malice in their hearts. On the encyclopedia there are beings listed as BA, and the explanation given for their BAness on the encyclopedia is "hostile to humans". There are plenty of reasons a race could be hostile to humans and not be pure darkness and destruction. Humans have been extremely bigoted for a very long time, so I'm sure there are many, many races out there that are hostile to humans because they remember well how they, or their ancestors, were treated by humans in days long past.



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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Magnolia » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:08 pm

They are classified that way because of their disregard of a human desire and will. It's fine if you don't want to use the CH Encyclopedia for reference but there's a lot of experience that goes into those classifications. They are classified based on how willing they are to adhere to house rules, to a Keeper's will and needs, and how likely they are to take negative action against the Keeper or anyone else in the home, which can include compulsory evil behavior.

I'm not sure what your background or experience is in working with spirits but I think people tend to forget how much time and energy Ash & I have spent in development of the Spirit Keeping path. As I said the other day I see people touting themselves as experts when they were five years old when we opened this site.

I think the allure and draw of Black Arts entities & spirits is in the thought you can overcome them. You're smarter than they are, you're capable of controlling them, you're powerful enough that all those tragic tales of people having their lives ruined won't happen to you because you're better than that.

Since practitioners and sellers refuse to adopt a singular system of classification when it comes to how to classify Dark Arts or Black Arts there are sellers who deal in BA entities & spirits but call them DA.

We can only caution people to ask questions of the seller, trust their instincts, and walk the path they feel is best for them.


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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Ashino Tsume roshi » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:51 pm

Always well said, complete, and done. What you have said is TOTALLY IMPORTANT.

I add my short additional comment. It is my view that especially in certain areas of life, one should always keep the rules as law (as it is) and playing around with occult - metaphysical whims, is about as good a thing to do as to play full field length football with an atom bomb!

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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Kitsune » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:54 am

creepyhollows wrote:They are classified that way because of their disregard of a human desire and will. It's fine if you don't want to use the CH Encyclopedia for reference but there's a lot of experience that goes into those classifications. They are classified based on how willing they are to adhere to house rules, to a Keeper's will and needs, and how likely they are to take negative action against the Keeper or anyone else in the home, which can include compulsory evil behavior.

I'm not sure what your background or experience is in working with spirits but I think people tend to forget how much time and energy Ash & I have spent in development of the Spirit Keeping path. As I said the other day I see people touting themselves as experts when they were five years old when we opened this site.

I think the allure and draw of Black Arts entities & spirits is in the thought you can overcome them. You're smarter than they are, you're capable of controlling them, you're powerful enough that all those tragic tales of people having their lives ruined won't happen to you because you're better than that.

Since practitioners and sellers refuse to adopt a singular system of classification when it comes to how to classify Dark Arts or Black Arts there are sellers who deal in BA entities & spirits but call them DA.

We can only caution people to ask questions of the seller, trust their instincts, and walk the path they feel is best for them.



My interpretation of the beings labeled BA are those that prey on humans (ie. Sludge entities), or those that only desire death and destruction, so I agree with you on that. I find that many beings which are very dark in nature are labeled BA, when they are not. This is especially so with demons, although there are some BA demons, I know a lot that aren't. I take a demonosopher's perspective and attitude with demons. They are amazing beings who can teach us many things, and share with us great experiences, but only if they are treated with great respect. I am working with, and have encountered many of the Goetic demons and Dark Lords, and the experiences have been amazing.

Many beings, depending on the species and individual and culture, can be seen as purely destructive, or very dark. I also find that beings like the Red cap, for instance, have a culture that makes them not suitable for people to be companions with. The red cap in particular, I've heard, has a need to be drenched in blood to be healthy.

Also, morality and perspective come into play here. For most people, there is a strong negative attitude toward killing due to the society and culture we live in. In my perspective, killing is not bad, it is nescessary for survival, and part of life. Another example would be cannibalism. In our society, it is taboo, and you are considered 'evil' (I really hate this word) if you do it. In cultures in remote areas of this planet, cannibalism is a tradition and something celebrated. So a being who's culture has to do with things that would be seen in such ways in our eyes are perfectly normal to them may be seen as BA.

I hope my point has been understood. Also, these are my thoughts, so some may not agree.


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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Shadows_ and_Omens » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:07 am

creepyhollows wrote:They are classified that way because of their disregard of a human desire and will. It's fine if you don't want to use the CH Encyclopedia for reference but there's a lot of experience that goes into those classifications. They are classified based on how willing they are to adhere to house rules, to a Keeper's will and needs, and how likely they are to take negative action against the Keeper or anyone else in the home, which can include compulsory evil behavior.

I'm not sure what your background or experience is in working with spirits but I think people tend to forget how much time and energy Ash & I have spent in development of the Spirit Keeping path. As I said the other day I see people touting themselves as experts when they were five years old when we opened this site.

I think the allure and draw of Black Arts entities & spirits is in the thought you can overcome them. You're smarter than they are, you're capable of controlling them, you're powerful enough that all those tragic tales of people having their lives ruined won't happen to you because you're better than that.

Since practitioners and sellers refuse to adopt a singular system of classification when it comes to how to classify Dark Arts or Black Arts there are sellers who deal in BA entities & spirits but call them DA.

We can only caution people to ask questions of the seller, trust their instincts, and walk the path they feel is best for them.


Personally, I do understand and appreciate the fact that you and Ash have far more experience and expertise than not only myself, but most other practitioners I know of. As I stated in my original post,it is exactly for that reason, that I chose to ask if there was any possible way I could get a binding through CH before seeking out another seller, even though I was already fairly certain the answer would be a no. I'm not claiming to be an expert, nor am I laboring under delusions of grandeur concerning my magical abilities, lol if I were, I'd probably be attempting to conjure & bind for myself rather than coming to you.
This isn't something I decided I wanted on a whim either, again, as I stated in my original post, this is something I've genuinely felt a strong pull towards for several years now. This is also not something I plan to rush into, I have waited this long to even broach the subject, and I will continue to be patient. I will take my time before making a purchase, especially if I end up having to go to another seller. As I said earlier, I have already passed up several listings, and will continue to do so until I find one that feels right to me. If it was meant to happen, then it will work out one way or another, and I will wait as long as it takes for it to work out the way it was meant to without trying to rush it or force it. I appreciate you being direct & honest with me about where you stand on this, even if it wasn't the answer I was hoping for. Thank you. :)



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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Shadows_ and_Omens » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:04 pm

Kitsune wrote:
creepyhollows wrote:They are classified that way because of their disregard of a human desire and will. It's fine if you don't want to use the CH Encyclopedia for reference but there's a lot of experience that goes into those classifications. They are classified based on how willing they are to adhere to house rules, to a Keeper's will and needs, and how likely they are to take negative action against the Keeper or anyone else in the home, which can include compulsory evil behavior.

I'm not sure what your background or experience is in working with spirits but I think people tend to forget how much time and energy Ash & I have spent in development of the Spirit Keeping path. As I said the other day I see people touting themselves as experts when they were five years old when we opened this site.

I think the allure and draw of Black Arts entities & spirits is in the thought you can overcome them. You're smarter than they are, you're capable of controlling them, you're powerful enough that all those tragic tales of people having their lives ruined won't happen to you because you're better than that.

Since practitioners and sellers refuse to adopt a singular system of classification when it comes to how to classify Dark Arts or Black Arts there are sellers who deal in BA entities & spirits but call them DA.

We can only caution people to ask questions of the seller, trust their instincts, and walk the path they feel is best for them.



My interpretation of the beings labeled BA are those that prey on humans (ie. Sludge entities), or those that only desire death and destruction, so I agree with you on that. I find that many beings which are very dark in nature are labeled BA, when they are not. This is especially so with demons, although there are some BA demons, I know a lot that aren't. I take a demonosopher's perspective and attitude with demons. They are amazing beings who can teach us many things, and share with us great experiences, but only if they are treated with great respect. I am working with, and have encountered many of the Goetic demons and Dark Lords, and the experiences have been amazing.

Many beings, depending on the species and individual and culture, can be seen as purely destructive, or very dark. I also find that beings like the Red cap, for instance, have a culture that makes them not suitable for people to be companions with. The red cap in particular, I've heard, has a need to be drenched in blood to be healthy.

Also, morality and perspective come into play here. For most people, there is a strong negative attitude toward killing due to the society and culture we live in. In my perspective, killing is not bad, it is nescessary for survival, and part of life. Another example would be cannibalism. In our society, it is taboo, and you are considered 'evil' (I really hate this word) if you do it. In cultures in remote areas of this planet, cannibalism is a tradition and something celebrated. So a being who's culture has to do with things that would be seen in such ways in our eyes are perfectly normal to them may be seen as BA.

I hope my point has been understood. Also, these are my thoughts, so some may not agree.


I actually once wrote an essay about how our concepts of good and evil are largely based on the standards set by the societies we live in, and how this varies greatly from one culture to another. :)



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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Noctua » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:31 pm

Here's what I would suggest, and it's probably the more difficult route and you might not want to pursue it. However if the calling is intense enough, if you really care and really want to be able to trust the process I would say this is the alternative.

Realize first of all what the calling is - if it has been this persistent and specific, there is a very likely reality that your strong pull to a typically malicious race of beings means a particular one is calling to you, and already around you.. rather than the race itself being the draw.
Get to learning, advancing your own abilities of : energy discernment, spirit communication, protective shielding, DA command/influence and connection.
At the point where you are reasonably confident in your abilities, you will know the nature of this being, be able to interact with it of your own accord, and be able to disconnect if there is trouble.
Then you can simply develop a non-binding relationship, you can potentially bind it for yourself, or be better educated to understand the next step.

Essentially, if you want to be forming connections with potentially dangerous beings, you have got to be willing to put in the work yourself.. because in reality, even if a practitioner could 'safely' bind such a being for you, you yourself need to be prepared. There might be a reason you find yourself in the predicament of waiting patiently for someone you trust to offer you the opportunity, and still not finding the avenue you seek.. and that reason may be that you need to be putting in more to your own path so you can understand these things for yourself. You need to understand the nature of this being for yourself, you need to understand your connection to them and what the potentials of that are. All of this would help you in many ways.



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Re: Does CH ever make exceptions?

Postby Ashino Tsume roshi » Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:18 pm

The ammount of true information given on this thread is about 1/4 th of a thick book. What I see is that there is a "force-of-mind" here in your ciber realm where you post.

What I see that is lacking, is discipline - self-discipline -and all major - famous - important masters of masters insist on self-discipline. Just Knowing the pieces, spells, dances, mental workings, workings with all kings of things and so on....

A story about Dr. Harry Smith (deceased).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Everett_Smith

Harrie was a supreme magus, not just an ordinary one by me, and had mastered the Abremelin Code....And was using it in a hugh sandbox so he could work in the sand Well he did something wrong, because fire started to shoot out upwards out of the sand. At the same time the walls caught on fire.

Yes, the fire was put out and the building that he then owned having had it gifted to him by Peggy Guggenheim who was also into magick and very wealthy, Now one was hurt.

Later, Harry figured out that he had placed several alphabeth letters in the wrong places of thr squares...

He never made that mistake again

So its like the movie The Treasure of Sierra Madre movie and book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treas ... erra_Madre

The toughest, kindest, most highly intelligent person can be run off the track easily.


I have seen people becoming "engulfed" in good things but dangerous things, and the survival rate (iwas told, is something about 50-50)

So my suggestion is: See the Movie, If you Dare, and you might just learn how to handle important aspects of Self.

And that is a Good Thing. But I have a strong feeling that you will ignore this, completely.

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