From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

User avatar
Fireshadow
neophyte
neophyte
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:40 pm
You are...: in the learning process
Number of Spirits: 59
Spelled Number: 12
Your favorite spirit to work with: all of them
If I could be anything, I would be...: a vampire
My super power would be...: Read other's minds
My magical/paranormal name...: Probably something with Fire

From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Fireshadow » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:12 pm

Okay, this truthseeking Christian needs someone to answer her question.

So... for people who can't handle the truth behind the religions, please don't respond or read this topic. I don't want to offend anyone, but I clearly do understand the fact that I can't go and ask this to a Christian priest, or even an atheist.

I'm reading a difficult written book now ( it's not exactly a roman), from a dutch Culture Historian, Jacob Slavenburg, called: 'Een reis langs de mysteriën, van het oude Egypte tot Carl Gustav Jung'. ( It's the original copy, I'm not sure if it's already translated). So basically it starts with the oldest religions know... and I'm not talking about Christianity. I'm talking about the religion from Ancient Egypt, the dead sea scrolls, and then Kaballa or something. So basically in this book it's documented that the oldest religions always had a Mother-Goddess. And well something very complicated about Lilith, Inanna, Isis, the Magna Mater, and then there is a chapter, about the Bibical Genesis, Jewish mystic, Kabbala and Lilith again. And then there is an alinea about the Zohar, where they speak about the Matronit or Shekinah, who is basically Gods wife. But she isn't Lilith, that's very clearly stated.

Looking back to all the religions that have been, or are still... in the Ancient Greek religion you have Zeus and Hera. In the ancient roman religion you have Juno and Jupiter. The ancient Egyptian religion was about Osiris and Isis, and even a couple before them. In every religion it seems you had atleast a King and Queen/ Father & Mother.

So as a Christian, I ask: where is Gods wife? Who is she? It's clearly not Mary, cause Mary is only Jesus his mom and married to Joseph, who is not God. I think after linking one to another, it's kinda possible that Jesus was just a human male, with the charm of Martin Luther King. His mother by that fact, would also be totally human. Maybe the Church has put together some Jesus and the god Horus to create Christ, were then Mary the Virgin would be a mix of Mary and the Goddess Isis... but still... In this thought, there would be someone missing.

And it's very clearly stated that God is the Father. So, where is the Mother? What happened with her? Now I come to understand that the founders of the Church were clearly against women, but.... still they have only made the Bible which already existed out of other stories.

So do we need to see God as the Creator, Adam as let's say 'Zeus', and Eve as say 'Hera'? But then again it's clearly stated that Adam and Eve were human? IMO, how I view it, is that there is a lot of similair traits between Zeus and the Catholic God. But still, I don't know where Hera is then?

The only answer I got was from the tv-show Supernatural, and there she is called the Darkness. So... is Gods wife thrown into a dungeon in Hell then?
Or did They simply divorce, and is She what the old Druids of Avalon-that-went-away, call the Goddess?


proud to be chosen by so many spirits <3


Whatever is Out There has set my destiny, but I'll walk the way to get there.

User avatar
lori67k
active contributor
active contributor
Posts: 724
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:04 pm
You are...: experienced
Number of Spirits: 3000
Spelled Number: 350
Your favorite spirit to work with: Dragons, Vampires
If I could be anything, I would be...: Immortal
My super power would be...: Ability to fly
My magical/paranormal name...: Soul Whisperer

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby lori67k » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:56 pm

My understanding of God, the Divine Creator is that God is a Trinity, Mother, Father, God or God, Jesus and the Holy spirit. we are all both feminine and masculine energies, and so my understanding, so is God; for we are said to be created in His or Her likeness, God is both when speaking of energy as we are also. Just as angels are neither male or female but have both aspects, so does God, and so do we

I don't look to religion for answers, mainly because religion is more about a belief than a true faith; though many religions tend to confuse the two blurring the lines and bending those lines to those who arm themselves with a specific religion to match their own personal beliefs and then call it faith. I rely on my higher self, my inner self, my true soul self for those answers for in my soul self lies God, for we are all God as God is a part of us... we create our own realities, we can bend and shape them to our will through our beliefs, faith goes much deeper than that and like love cannot be truly defined but rather felt, known and embraced. What we believe and hold our thoughts to the most, we create, therefore we are God's in our own right, and despite what our gender may appear to be in this life or any other life, we are always both feminine and masculine. when we have multiple lives we can be either male or female in any given life time. We are in fact God consciousness which cannot truly be defined by gender rules since energy is neither negative or positive per say but can present as either or, so has God to many people, presented as either or, but the male population having control early on in history in the writing out women's roles, has often referred to God as He and over many generations we've come to accept it as fact. the fact is God is simply both aspects all in one and the divine, making up the trinity which is in essence God

Go within to gain more knowledge about this rather than attempting to place the God consciousness into a little box with a narrative that makes sense to the logical part of you .... ask your higher self to show you God within your own higher consciousness and ask that question.... I've asked similar questions and the answer I've always received is that God is both

I guess it truly depends on what we believe and are willing to accept

That's my take on it


Whenever we try to live up to other's expectations and perceptions of how they think we should be, look like, act like, become... we are only setting ourselves up to fail miserably! In the end, no one is happy. Please yourself first, love yourself most, seek out only those things that make 'you' feel good, those things that lend you many moments of peace; live your truth and be who you are. Only you are the true source of your own happiness. Make it happen 1ht

User avatar
Cr1ogeN
new here
new here
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:05 pm
You are...: in the learning process
Male/Female: Male
If I could be anything, I would be...: Wiser
My super power would be...: Read other's minds

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Cr1ogeN » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:57 pm

Christian religion has no fundamental basis, since they took ancient pagan celebrations and transformed them into Christ's birth and so on. It is just a jewish religion who seeks to make people be more submissive and to settle with less. It was forcefully connected with old jewish writings (old testament) to prophesise the coming of a jewish messiah. Also, the old testament is copied from ancient babylonian writings (e.g. Enûma Eliš, Epic of Gilgamesh) from the time when jewish people were slaves of the ancient Babylonian Empire.


Image
Knowledge is Power

User avatar
Lewk
neophyte
neophyte
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:11 am
You are...: in the learning process
Male/Female: Male
Number of Spirits: 111
Spelled Number: 101
Your favorite spirit to work with: Any
If I could be anything, I would be...: Immortal
My super power would be...: Ability to fly
My magical/paranormal name...: Easthorse Indigo

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Lewk » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:53 pm

From what you say, I think you might find The Great Transformation by Karen Armstrong, 2006, Atlantic books, very interesting with much food for thought.

I think you'll be able to handle the rigorous academic research presented in a readable form for the general public style.

There is a good section on the kingdoms of Israel & Judah from 1000 to 722 bc. The book referals to archaeologists' findings that the cult of Yahweh was just one of many in Israel at first and briefly summarises Yahweh's promotion to greater prominence then finally to be the one supreme god of both Judah & Israel.

It was a revelation for me when I read that and explains a lot.

Clearly the cult of Yahweh didn't bring with it a bride/ partner as it rose in prominence - or if he had one originally she got left out of the narrative somewhere along the line.

Once the belief system of the people in that area made the transition from top God Yahweh to monotheism, based on Yahweh (Jehovah) the rest of the baggage got added. Or that's how it seems.

Later theologians may well have asked the same questions as you: why has our God, our Father not got a wife? It's a reasonable question, which archaeology seems to have a good answer to.

Karen Armstrong is like yourself a Christian.
She was formerly a Catholic nun but then moved towards the more liberal, mystical side of Christianity. She is described as being concerned with compassion and the golden rule. Indeed the book goes on to show the development of the Golden Rule in subsequent centuries (covering Buddha, Socrates, Confucius and Jeremiah). She has written other books on comparative religion.


Don’t be scared. This island is full of noises, strange sounds and sweet melodies that make you feel good and don’t hurt anyone. Sometimes I hear a thousand twanging instruments hum at my ears, and sometimes voices that send me back to sleep even if I had just woken up—and then I dreamed of clouds opening up and dropping such riches on me that when I woke up, I cried because I wanted to dream again. Caliban, The Tempest, Shakespeare
1mg

User avatar
Fireshadow
neophyte
neophyte
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:40 pm
You are...: in the learning process
Number of Spirits: 59
Spelled Number: 12
Your favorite spirit to work with: all of them
If I could be anything, I would be...: a vampire
My super power would be...: Read other's minds
My magical/paranormal name...: Probably something with Fire

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Fireshadow » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:20 pm

@ Lewk; thanks, I'll take a look in our library, but I'm not sure if they have the book. Some books aren't known in Belgium it seems :)


proud to be chosen by so many spirits <3


Whatever is Out There has set my destiny, but I'll walk the way to get there.

User avatar
Alys-RaccoonReadings
acclaimed member
acclaimed member
Posts: 1605
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:43 pm
You are...: experienced
Number of Spirits: 27
My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift
My magical/paranormal name...: Alys

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Alys-RaccoonReadings » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:56 pm

Fireshadow wrote:So as a Christian, I ask: where is Gods wife? Who is she? It's clearly not Mary, cause Mary is only Jesus his mom and married to Joseph, who is not God. I think after linking one to another, it's kinda possible that Jesus was just a human male, with the charm of Martin Luther King. His mother by that fact, would also be totally human. Maybe the Church has put together some Jesus and the god Horus to create Christ, were then Mary the Virgin would be a mix of Mary and the Goddess Isis... but still... In this thought, there would be someone missing.

And it's very clearly stated that God is the Father. So, where is the Mother? What happened with her? Now I come to understand that the founders of the Church were clearly against women, but.... still they have only made the Bible which already existed out of other stories.


I am just now catching this thread since I was traveling without much Internet/WiFi signal when it first popped up. There appears to be almost nothing broadly available in English regarding Slavenburg's work beyond The Hermetic Link. He is otherwise not translated and doesn't seem to be broadly discussed among lay people either, so I'm going to be having to address the general concept rather than his positions specifically.

The universality of the Divine Wife/Mother is best understood as a motif and not an inescapable law. That is, we see Her all over the place, but not always explicitly and not always identically across traditions.


The Historical/Cultural Question of Yahweh's Wife
There's a credible school of scholarly thought that says the original wife of the ancient Israelite God Yahweh (culturally/religiously a later manifestation of the Semitic God 'Ēl) was Asherah. You might remember references made to her through the mentions of "Asherah poles" (in the English translation) in the Old Testament. I have no idea what rationale for the order of the list below is, but it's obviously not chronological.

    1 Kings 11:5
    1 Kings 11:33
    Deuteronomy 16:21
    1 Samuel 31:10
    1 Samuel 7:3
    Isaiah 27:9
    Judges 2:13
    Judges 10:6
    1 Samuel 12:10
    Judges 3:7
    2 Kings 23:13
    1 Kings 14:15
    1 Kings 14:23
    2 Kings 17:10
    2 Kings 17:16
    1 Kings 15:13
    1 Kings 16:33
    1 Kings 18:19
    2 Kings 13:6
    2 Kings 21:3
    2 Kings 21:7
    2 Kings 23:4
    2 Kings 23:7
    Jeremiah 17:2
    Jeremiah 7:18
    Jeremiah 44:17-19
    Jeremiah 44:25

Historically and culturally, Asherah derives from the proto-Semitic religious tradition from which Yahweh Himself descends. She can be seen in Akkadian, Hittite and Ugaritic religions (which the OT would have referred to as Canaanite.) You can see Her close association with 'Ēl in the Ugaritic epithet "Elat." She is possibly even mentioned in some Egyptian records as "Qudshu." She is also associated with the Phoenician Mother of the Gods Athirat who, interestingly, is sometimes referred to as "Chawat" which is related to the Aramaic word "Hawwah" which correlates with the name rendered "Eve" in Genesis.

Asherah worship obviously flourished for a long time in ancient Israel. References to the Shekinah as God's Wife are believed to refer to Asherah, but given his work on Christian Gnosticism, I can see why Slavenburg chooses on the Shekinah as Its own, more ethereal concept (The original Christian Gnostics believed that Jesus was either not physically present/human or that the Christ was a separate non-physical entity that used the physical Jesus' body.)

Evaluating The Necessity of "God's Wife"
There does not always have to be a Husband/Wife pair even within the primal motif. The form of Divine Mother rather than Divine Wife is very prevalent. Humanity's longing for the Divine Feminine and a archetypal Balance can be satisfied with either or both. For instance, while Isis is, of course, Osiris' Wife, Her ultimate precedence in the timeline of Her story comes from being Horus' Mother. Her actions as a Wife are very much praised and venerated, but at various points in history cultic focus favored Horus as King of the Gods over Osiris as God of the Afterlife. Gnostics focused on Mary Magdalene as wife, but sometimes She is the Mother of Sarah, too. Catholics venerate the Virgin--in practice if not in theory as Mother but not Wife. Other Christians see their Goddess in the Holy Spirit, personified as Sophia (Wisdom,) closer to a Wife than a Mother. The Eleusinian mysteries focused on Demeter as Kore's Mother rather than as Anyone's Wife.

But, of course, there is not always a God/Goddess pair of Husband/Wife or Mother/Son either. Although those are, of course, the most common and, therefore, universal iterations--which also argues the idea that these are the most primal ones. Most likely the truth expressed by these motifs is the existence of a preference for balance in nature. Sometimes the balance can be subtly reflected in other ways, perhaps as a Brother/Sister like Apollo/Artemis or a Father/Daughter as with Zeus/Athena.

Of course, nature's general--or humanity's primal--preference for balance doesn't guarantee that all humans prefer balance or that imbalances aren't just as real and natural.

Abrahamic monotheism exists on a massive scale, and it doesn't leave balancing room for any Goddess at all. For the huge swath of history where Yahweh has ruled supreme in Judaism, He has not had a universally recognized Wife, and He had none at all once the monotheists were done. The dour early Protestant Christians had no room in their world for any expression of a Divine Feminine at all since they inherited the medieval view of "feminine" as being a corrupted from and weaker than masculinity and thus much further from divine than even male humans. They still have strong descendants in the fundamentalist evangelical Christian community. And, although many in the West aren't aware of it, there are places where Shakti is venerated as a monotheistic Goddess.

So to the extent that someone argues that a belief system must always include a Divine Husband and a Divine Wife, they are observably wrong, and I (optimistically?) doubt that is Slavenburg's point. He is most likely pointing to the motif rather than an inescapable law of reality or immovable truth.

Although, given his connections to Hermeticism and its stress on the principle of masculine/feminine, I can see why he might also try to argue the idea that those pairs objectively exist and certain religions erroneously neglect them. But I think that any explanation along those lines so ignores lived religious experience on such a large scale that it imposes limits on its own ability to comprehend the universe as it actually exists. There are plenty of very good people who are firm patriarchal or matriarchal monotheists who have plumbed the depths of their own faith and thus perceived some facet of truth as valid as any other. At this point in history, there's such a critical mass behind a patriarchal monotheistic Christian or Jewish God that some aspect of that exact vision is true and provides a meaningful experience at some level and it is not sufficient to say that right this second every face of Yahweh is married to Asherah or Shekinah regardless of what the masses may think.

Further Reading
For an introduction on Asherah as Yahweh's wife, you can see here (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42147912/ns/t ... FdPslxKiUk) and here (https://thequeenofheaven.wordpress.com/ ... of-yahweh/). Bonus follow-ups here (https://thequeenofheaven.wordpress.com/ ... nts-bride/) and here (https://thequeenofheaven.wordpress.com/ ... lion-lady/).

For longer reads, you can see the following books:



User avatar
Lewk
neophyte
neophyte
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:11 am
You are...: in the learning process
Male/Female: Male
Number of Spirits: 111
Spelled Number: 101
Your favorite spirit to work with: Any
If I could be anything, I would be...: Immortal
My super power would be...: Ability to fly
My magical/paranormal name...: Easthorse Indigo

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Lewk » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:47 pm

Wow. I'm just in awe of that post and its magisterial coverage of the relevant issues 1lt



User avatar
Alys-RaccoonReadings
acclaimed member
acclaimed member
Posts: 1605
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:43 pm
You are...: experienced
Number of Spirits: 27
My super power would be...: Ability to shape-shift
My magical/paranormal name...: Alys

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Alys-RaccoonReadings » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:48 pm

XD This is one of my favorite topics!



User avatar
Cr1ogeN
new here
new here
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:05 pm
You are...: in the learning process
Male/Female: Male
If I could be anything, I would be...: Wiser
My super power would be...: Read other's minds

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Cr1ogeN » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:48 pm

So many text walls and for what? I will give you the answer you prolly seek: BARBELO



User avatar
Lewk
neophyte
neophyte
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:11 am
You are...: in the learning process
Male/Female: Male
Number of Spirits: 111
Spelled Number: 101
Your favorite spirit to work with: Any
If I could be anything, I would be...: Immortal
My super power would be...: Ability to fly
My magical/paranormal name...: Easthorse Indigo

Re: From Babylon to today: what happened with the Goddess?

Postby Lewk » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:09 am

Cr1ogeN wrote:So many text walls and for what? I will give you the answer you prolly seek: BARBELO

Interesting...yes Barbelo *is* a female creator in one religious world view.. I find the way all these religious ideas evolved fascinating.

The Nag Hammadi texts are pretty universally dated to being written AD or in the Common Era. They represent a religious cosmological perspective which is different from the Judeo-Christian world view and as far as I can tell did come after it.

The Nag Hammadi gnostic idea of Barbelo is of a female first principle, "the womb of all". This is different from the earlier idea of a male One God ie Yehovah or Jahweh.

For me the OP question of what happened to God's wife is answered by how 'God' ie YHVH rose from being a minor local deity into the chief god of two Jewish kingdoms, Israel and Judea. Eventually Yahweh broke out of polytheism and was promoted to be the monotheistic 'One True God'.

To me none of these belief systems have got it nailed. You can see how most of them changed over time so I find it hard to completely believe in any of them. (I suppose if there's one thing I do believe in, it's to not believe in any belief system, including my own.) 1tk




Return to “Immortals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests