Member Communications and it's Importance

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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby uncle sid » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Ishvala wrote:
darkwing dook wrote:Bad analogy.

If you argue about their shop, sure. The forum is not the product nor service.


It's not a product but it is a service they provide to people. Just because something is free to members doesn't mean it isn't a service (look at free to play MMO's). They do advertise here, their own shop, as well as others in topics such as reviews and love for CH specifically. They get an audience out of this forum and a lucrative one. In my mind, that makes this place more beneficial to them than one might think.

darkwing dook wrote:If you use the argument that it's subjective, then what you called "basic decency" is also subjective, depending on local tradition, morality, personal preference, etc.
Again, moot point.


If respect, what it is, and how much of it an owner should give its members has to be debated on I suppose this is a moot point.


darkwing dook wrote:Here's an analogy: Do you trust all the adult-aged people in your surrounding and social circle to be adults? And do they all have the same concept and definition of basic decency as yours? If yes to both, then I'd say you live in a good (and a bit creepy : P) place.


No, in fact due to past experiences I have some pretty bad trust issues. However again, there's a difference between trusting everyone around you to not trash your house during a party and trusting a few members to be able to use pms without breaking a website. That said, I'm not even advocating for much more than less strict policies. I'm not expecting the site to become some wild house party with no rules because "I'm sick of workin for The man, Timmy! Eff the system!!"

It's really not so colorful. XD


darkwing dook wrote:Your example doesn't show any evidence that CH has committed authoritarian-esque response. More like you are projecting your personal negative feeling based on what you've experienced somewhere else into CH.


That's my point. I Feel this way. I have opinions based on both what I've read and my feelings. I have seen other members feel this way and worse, and debate leaving such as Sid, or leave entirely - and I haven't even been here for that long.

Yes, my feelings are subjective but the fact remains that I'm not the only one, at least three members I know personally and several I've been told of echo my problems to some degree if not more so but have given up in expecting change.

There is a lack of information CH has provided to us to comfort us or make their members more aware and thus accepting of things, there are statements above that have been brushed off as "Well it COULD happen" or "Well they COULD choose not to be mature" instead of focusing on the facts of the matter, and on top of that let's say I'm completely wrong and everything I said was just emotional passion taking a turn for the worst...

Well the original message still stays. This site needs change to better accommodate its members. Sure, it functions. Sure, CH is popular enough to sustain itself on its store and they'll get new members through there consistently, but the care FEELS gone. That feeling is driving away a heck of a lot of people. I figured setting up slightly less restrictions or even just getting a more detailed response as to the why behind them would be good for the community. I suppose I am mistaken?

Edit: Also I don't think I'm projecting anything negative outside of feeling shut down for merely wanting better for a site I enjoy being on. I understand emotions, my own and others, to a very deep degree and I don't think it's fair of you to make that assumption but I also think it's your right to theorize so...take that as you will.


I respect the attempts at trying to reach a agreement, hopefully something comes of this, if you decide to contact CH directly.

Am i extremely bitter and disappointed with this forum? Yes, i am.

Do i think restricting basic communication skills to members above newly registered is dumb? Yeah i do. You already had time to be civil, don't see why you need more, just seems elitist to me and angers me a lot.

I understand why this is the way it is, if you want control and make sure the forum doesn't get shut down, go for it. It doesn't really matter in the end, old members will still be around, new members will come and go, either being extremely disappointed or satisfied at information and the community for a time, but eventually leaving and seeking elsewhere for better feedback, as i rarely post anything about my spiritual journey here, as i usually don't get answers.

Same token, you do let members have more control, then forum gets in trouble due to nasty people and gets shut down. Also doesn't matter in the end, due to it getting shut down.

Its popular enough to survive, Ch doesn't need saving really. Most times the other meta communities i been to have actually been less restrictive, and more open. So i have no idea what that other guy is saying about "restrictive" the rules are fairly common sense and easier to follow.

But again, i get it. This is a professional community. They want it to be that way, let it be that way. It works for those that have been around for a long long time. Let sleeping dogs lie.



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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby Muse » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:45 pm

Unclesid wrote:Let sleeping dogs lie.


That seems like all I can do.

Also given what you've said in past threads and these posts you have a right to be bitter IMHO. Hopefully that wasn't taken the wrong way.



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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby darkwing dook » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:06 pm

Ishvala wrote:Just because something is free to members doesn't mean it isn't a service (look at free to play MMO's). They do advertise here, their own shop, as well as others in topics such as reviews and love for CH specifically.

Again, bad analogy.
Free to play games including MMO receive their revenue from micro transaction (which include additional commodity for player to play their games) and ads revenue (from other companies). Do you want the forum membership to be paid to gain higher membership status?
CH advertising in their own forum is like department stores putting their own ads within their buildings. It is only about the store, not gaining benefit for the forum membership status.


Ishvala wrote:If respect, what it is, and how much of it an owner should give its members has to be debated on I suppose this is a moot point.
Yep.


Ishvala wrote:No, in fact due to past experiences I have some pretty bad trust issues. However again, there's a difference between trusting everyone around you to not trash your house during a party and trusting a few members to be able to use pms without breaking a website.
What's the difference?
Honestly, a person getting tenured before allowing him/her access to PM is beneficial for other members to see how the person is like from his/her posts in the forum.



Ishvala wrote:That's my point. I Feel this way. I have opinions based on both what I've read and my feelings. I have seen other members feel this way and worse, and debate leaving such as Sid, or leave entirely - and I haven't even been here for that long.

Then you either ignored my question or didn't understand it:
When did they use the authoritarian-esque response?

I was asking for evidence, not opinion. Thus, it's irrelevant.


Ishvala wrote:There is a lack of information CH has provided to us to comfort us or make their members more aware and thus accepting of things, there are statements above that have been brushed off as "Well it COULD happen" or "Well they COULD choose not to be mature" instead of focusing on the facts of the matter, and on top of that let's say I'm completely wrong and everything I said was just emotional passion taking a turn for the worst...

Lack of information doesn't necessarily lead to authoritarian-esque response.
And again, when did CH brush off the questioning with "Well it COULD happen" and "Well they COULD choose not to be mature"?


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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby Muse » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:19 pm

darkwing dook wrote:Again, bad analogy.
Free to play games including MMO receive their revenue from micro transaction (which include additional commodity for player to play their games) and ads revenue (from other companies). Do you want the forum membership to be paid to gain higher membership status?
CH advertising in their own forum is like department stores putting their own ads within their buildings. It is only about the store, not gaining benefit for the forum membership status.


CH gets enough money from their members and non-members, and enough advertising from both their own site and others to be considered on the same level imo. I don't think it's a bad analogy at all, especially considering the member discounts system in the store. But that's neither here nor there.

darkwing dook wrote:Honestly, a person getting tenured before allowing him/her access to PM is beneficial for other members to see how the person is like from his/her posts in the forum.


I don't think this is a bad system I think it could be improved. I think Tenured could be granted after a number of posts or after a shorter amount of time, etc.

darkwing dook wrote:Lack of information doesn't necessarily lead to authoritarian-esque response.
And again, when did CH brush off the questioning with "Well it COULD happen" and "Well they COULD choose not to be mature"?


This is a loaded question so I'll answer it in parts. First, yes you're right that lack of information doesn't lead to an authoritarian response. But it does begin down that road and it does present the feeling of being kept in the dark over a community you're apart of.

Secondly, I didn't say CH brushed off my questioning with those responses. I said that the responses in this thread did. Don't take what I say out of context please. Or perhaps, you misunderstood me?



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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby darkwing dook » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:25 pm

Ishvala wrote:CH gets enough money from their members and non-members, and enough advertising from both their own site and others to be considered on the same level imo. I don't think it's a bad analogy at all, especially considering the member discounts system in the store. But that's neither here nor there.

We are talking about the comparison of CH forum vs MMOs, right? If so, they are different business systems.
One, there doesn't seem to be any direct revenue from the forum, and other sellers' promotion is free. On the other hand, MMOs receive direct revenues from micro transaction and ads revenue of other companies.
Two, the forum is not a place for transaction. On the other hand, MMOs do transaction within the games.
Three, there is no benefit in the forum for members by being big spender in the shop. On the other hand, depending on whether it's pay-to-win or not, there are MMOs that give more benefit and chance to win for players who pay more.


Ishvala wrote:This is a loaded question so I'll answer it in parts. First, yes you're right that lack of information doesn't lead to an authoritarian response. But it does begin down that road and it does present the feeling of being kept in the dark over a community you're apart of.

In that case, you should try asking CH directly via email. If they consider it safe to share privately, I believe they would.


Ishvala wrote:Secondly, I didn't say CH brushed off my questioning with those responses. I said that the responses in this thread did. Don't take what I say out of context please. Or perhaps, you misunderstood me?

Oo, then your problem in this case is not with CH or the forum, but with the responses from people like me. Which is not a problem considering "An Open Forum means that we welcome all ideologies, theories, beliefs, and thought processes."
But again, anyone should ask directly to get CH's formal response.


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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby Muse » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:48 pm

darkwing dook wrote:We are talking about the comparison of CH forum vs MMOs, right? If so, they are different business systems.
One, there doesn't seem to be any direct revenue from the forum, and other sellers' promotion is free. On the other hand, MMOs receive direct revenues from micro transaction and ads revenue of other companies.
Two, the forum is not a place for transaction. On the other hand, MMOs do transaction within the games.
Three, there is no benefit in the forum for members by being big spender in the shop. On the other hand, depending on whether it's pay-to-win or not, there are MMOs that give more benefit and chance to win for players who pay more.


Fair enough.

darkwing dook wrote:In that case, you should try asking CH directly via email. If they consider it safe to share privately, I believe they would.


Please see the responses to Noc concerning this. I had stated that I emailed them.
:)

darkwing dook wrote:Oo, then your problem in this case is not with CH or the forum, but with the responses from people like me. Which is not a problem considering "An Open Forum means that we welcome all ideologies, theories, beliefs, and thought processes."
But again, anyone should ask directly to get CH's formal response.


-points up-

I had also stated that I appreciated your responses opinionated or otherwise. Twice, I believe. I do not have a problem with them or you or responses from you/people like you by extension. In fact I do not have a "problem" at all aside from my current craving of chicken nuggets. I'm merely making a statement that I personally feel some responses could be better and more detailed as some of them comment on things I'd already said/answered in above posts such as the example above , but this is clearly subjective.

Noc and I had a similar misunderstanding that later became forgiveness and she even offered to chat with me in general which I'm thankful for. I see no reason why you and I should be different in this setting.

Anyhow, I've spent time in this thread since six in the morning and I still haven't gotten an email response, so I suppose I'll take my final bow and move on to more fun topics.



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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby Likes2Read » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:54 pm

Here are ways to reach out off-forum to other members.

- Earn tenure and gain access to PMs and a bunch more sub-forums. If your would-be friend has done the same, you can reach out to them.

- Branch out and visit other sellers’ sites. Some of them have forums, Facebook groups, D*****d channels, etc. Some of them have more than one of these outlets. Most of our members participate in more than one of these things. You will find at least some of our folks in each of these places.

- Use chat. I’m sure its activity will pick back up after that drama situation not long ago. The fact that folks must earn their way out of post approval before seeing chat means that we will no longer have members who join JUST to troll chat and never post. Nobody is THAT dedicated to trolling that they’ll put up a facade for 30+ posts to get off post approval, just so they can start harassing people and get banned after making all that effort.


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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby Alys-RaccoonReadings » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:13 pm

Policy considerations aside, the good news is that once you find one of us on the great Tome of Visages, it becomes shockingly easy to find many more of us.



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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby Durona » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:33 pm

I can’t private message Until I’m tenured? It takes six months? That’s dumb. How does that help? If for example darkwing spammed me, threatened me, or was just being a rude meanyhead I would just report him. I would email support with screenshots.

Aren’t the terms of service technically considered a legally binding contract?

Some of the things that are provided in the shop are not technically products but services. Like for example bind to spirit. So I think that someone could tfile a law suit for bad Service or a scam.


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Re: Member Communications and it's Importance

Postby Muse » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:32 am

Alys-RaccoonReadings wrote:Policy considerations aside, the good news is that once you find one of us on the great Tome of Visages, it becomes shockingly easy to find many more of us.


I've learned this rather recently actually. It's an odd route to make friends but I guess it's the best we've got for now.

Likes2Read wrote:Here are ways to reach out off-forum to other members.


I have been made aware. Hopefully you're right and chat will pick up eventually.




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