darkwing dook wrote:

StarPlatinum wrote:
And this is not just about stories, but also related to destiny, fate, evolution, etc. Rather than "Reality beyond Story", this one is "Story beyond Reality".



The rest, I don't think it's addressed to my post, but this:

StarPlatinum wrote:A Cure for Chaos?

How to define this "chaos"?

Chaos in physics:

Why jump straight to physics' definition, furthermore thermodynamics? If you do so, you shouldn't equate entropy to chaos, as well as their relation with disorder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSgPRj207uE
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/8efb/e ... 8e0300.pdf
https://www.science20.com/train_thought ... rder-75081
http://www.hk-phy.org/articles/chaos/chaos_e.html
https://www.csuohio.edu/sciences/physics/essay-chaos


)

Yes, you are right.

Still: "the second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium:" This equilibrium is also sometimes called "warmth death of the universe" when looked at universally. A dispersion of energy in all directions until there's only warmth. In that state there is no differentiation possible anymore, so there is no meaningful information, this is only possible because entropy never decreases. This is why I compared entropy with chaos and death and also for lack of a better word I admit. Is there a word for what I really meant? I really wonder.

The rest is just playing with form and having a little fun using a bit of everything.

Oh and I don't see how story can be beyond reality. I meant that there has to be a fundamental thing beyond all concepts, science, words, and stories. That can't be shown with tools. To which there can only be pointers (archetypal stories for example) or diversions from it (simulacra). well "simulacra only hide the fact that nothing like reality has any meaning for the actuality of the life we're living" But through that contradiction, you can see it's all mere words.

StarPlatinum wrote: Still: "the second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium:" This equilibrium is also sometimes called "warmth death of the universe" when looked at universally. A dispersion of energy in all directions until there's only warmth. In that state there is no differentiation possible anymore, so there is no meaningful information, this is only possible because entropy never decreases.

Mmm did you mean heat death of universe? I.e. when universe reaches the state of maximum entropy? If yes, then:
1. It is also called the big chill hypothesis, one of the hypotheses of how the universe ends. There are others, e.g. big crunch, big rip, etc. In other words, we still don't know which ending this universe is leading to.
2. There are critics about this hypothesis as well, e.g. "It is rather presumptuous to speak of the entropy of a universe about which we still understand so little,..."
https://books.google.co.id/books?id=SnM ... py&f=false

StarPlatinum wrote:This is why I compared entropy with chaos and death and also for lack of a better word I admit. Is there a word for what I really meant? I really wonder.

If you want to say chaos, or death, or disorder, you can use those specific words.
Entropy is entropy, made from ergon (work) and trope (transformation). It has several definitions, but in physics, it's not related to those above.

StarPlatinum wrote:Oh and I don't see how story can be beyond reality. I meant that there has to be a fundamental thing beyond all concepts, science, words, and stories. That can't be shown with tools. To which there can only be pointers (archetypal stories for example) or diversions from it (simulacra). well "simulacra only hide the fact that nothing like reality has any meaning for the actuality of the life we're living" But through that contradiction, you can see it's all mere words.

Mmh? You talked about archetype, so you should know the idea of story beyond reality. If you only use it to analyze stories and assess the reality beyond it, you miss the other half of its application. And you'd be limited to stories, while histories also provide a lot of research materials.
And fate, destiny, philosophical ideas etc don't need to be shown with tools.

darkwing dook wrote:

StarPlatinum wrote: Still: "the second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases. Such systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium:" This equilibrium is also sometimes called "warmth death of the universe" when looked at universally. A dispersion of energy in all directions until there's only warmth. In that state there is no differentiation possible anymore, so there is no meaningful information, this is only possible because entropy never decreases.

Mmm did you mean heat death of universe? I.e. when universe reaches the state of maximum entropy? If yes, then:
1. It is also called the big chill hypothesis, one of the hypotheses of how the universe ends. There are others, e.g. big crunch, big rip, etc. In other words, we still don't know which ending this universe is leading to.
2. There are critics about this hypothesis as well, e.g. "It is rather presumptuous to speak of the entropy of a universe about which we still understand so little,..."
https://books.google.co.id/books?id=SnM ... py&f=false

StarPlatinum wrote:This is why I compared entropy with chaos and death and also for lack of a better word I admit. Is there a word for what I really meant? I really wonder.

If you want to say chaos, or death, or disorder, you can use those specific words.
Entropy is entropy, made from ergon (work) and trope (transformation). It has several definitions, but in physics, it's not related to those above.

Oh, I see. You are speaking strictly provable science. The phenomenon I'm referring too can also be felt internally/spiritually as something like falling and because microcosm=macrocosm I applied this to the universe. Again, this is all felt and observed from the place of oneness, so I can't really argue about that. I just used science as a pointer. As there is no better concept than entropy to refer to what I feel, I stick with it. I can see how this can offend someone who holds science dear, so please see my text as work of art and no scientific essay. If I go any further this would feel like explaining a joke. So please don't rationalize too much.

darkwing dook wrote:

StarPlatinum wrote:Oh and I don't see how story can be beyond reality. I meant that there has to be a fundamental thing beyond all concepts, science, words, and stories. That can't be shown with tools. To which there can only be pointers (archetypal stories for example) or diversions from it (simulacra). well "simulacra only hide the fact that nothing like reality has any meaning for the actuality of the life we're living" But through that contradiction, you can see it's all mere words.

Mmh? You talked about archetype, so you should know the idea of story beyond reality. If you only use it to analyze stories and assess the reality beyond it, you miss the other half of its application. And you'd be limited to stories, while histories also provide a lot of research materials.
And fate, destiny, philosophical ideas etc don't need to be shown with tools.

Hmm do you mean the archetypes of nature that throughout history play out like a story?
If not, I'm lost here. Could you please elaborate? Is this an established concept or have you found out about that on your own?

StarPlatinum wrote: Oh, I see. You are speaking strictly provable science. The phenomenon I'm referring too can also be felt internally/spiritually as something like falling and because microcosm=macrocosm I applied this to the universe. Again, this is all felt and observed from the place of oneness, so I can't really argue about that. I just used science as a pointer. As there is no better concept than entropy to refer to what I feel, I stick with it. I can see how this can offend someone who holds science dear, so please see my text as work of art and no scientific essay. If I go any further this would feel like explaining a joke. So please don't rationalize too much. :P

If we use the laws from "provable science" to other fields, we need to make sure the target is applicable and to set the limitation. E.g. Newton's laws are applicable to behavior studies, but to an extent only: external force doesn't necessarily make people at rest move or change course, or motivate/demotivate more, and every action doesn't necessarily have equal and opposite reaction.
Using those laws without regard to the context and boundary of the laws will make readers think that those "provable science" and scientists in those fields supports the statement, which is not always the case, and that's dangerous and disingenuous.

StarPlatinum wrote: Hmm do you mean the archetypes of nature that throughout history play out like a story?
If not, I'm lost here. Could you please elaborate? Is this an established concept or have you found out about that on your own?

Yes, that's one example. The concept that historic recurrence, how the saying "history repeats itself" comes, can be considered as one. Folklore can contain a cautionary tale of what can happen in real life.
Established concept of fate and destiny, we can look at religions, from Greek's Moirai, Norse's Norns, even to Hindu's karma and Islam's qada-qadar. The modern ones would be Nietzsche's doctrine of eternal recurrence and Campbell's hero's journey.

The ego is an organ for interacting with the specifics of manifest life (as one teacher put it, "We have to be able to differentiate ourselves from a doorknob.). It is ego IDENTIFICATION we want to transcend. There are many ways to approach that. It is often said that, beforehand, it seems like a big deal; afterwards, no so much. The "destruction" concepts and so on are the drama of not understanding, but understanding only comes with the actual freedom. Just good to try to keep perspective.