Sigils

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Re: Sigils

Postby Vastolord » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:45 pm

Is there such things as enochian runes?



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Re: Sigils

Postby Lewk » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:03 am

SullyTheStag wrote:I agree with you there lewk, I still need to find some more rune divination things that I am satisfied with but I will however look into Murry Hope and perhaps I will be able to find that book you talked about because I feel as if that would be tremendously helpful as most things I have done concerning runes I honestly have done for myself, and most likely made many many mistakes. Right now on my path I am going to be focusing on the ansuz and othala runes because I feel a calling to them, along with learning how to properly use runes as well. Because, I have realized there is far more I need to learn in this subject. Now I also do believe they are also far far more than a writing system, or at least the elder futhark I feel is. To me the younger and Latin futharks tend to be more of a writing system.


I should probably point out that I think there's nothing left in print of Murry Hope's rune magic. What I have is a very battered mid 1980s magazine with the article that might have been the only time she shared her system. (I then went on to buy and work with half a dozen of her other books.)

I hope you come across a good rune system that clicks for you.


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Re: Sigils

Postby Lewk » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:11 am

Vastolord wrote:Is there such things as enochian runes?

You can google that.

Essentially it's the angelic language that John Dee and Edward Kelley developed in Elizabethan England. Not runes actually, more of an attempt to find the mysterious lost language of angels.

It was then developed by people in the Golden Dawn to produce the modern system that some use for Enochian magic.

"The Enochian system of magic is primarily the work of two men: John Dee and Edward Kelley. The research of Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, Aleister Crowley, Thomas Rudd, Elias Ashmole, William Wynn Westcott and Israel Regardie made additional contributions."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enochian_magic


Don’t be scared. This island is full of noises, strange sounds and sweet melodies that make you feel good and don’t hurt anyone. Sometimes I hear a thousand twanging instruments hum at my ears, and sometimes voices that send me back to sleep even if I had just woken up—and then I dreamed of clouds opening up and dropping such riches on me that when I woke up, I cried because I wanted to dream again. Caliban, The Tempest, Shakespeare
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Re: Sigils

Postby SullyTheStag » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:46 am

I honestly feel as if I am pioneering my own little way through experimenting with them carefully as possible, through carvings and meditations. I may try to make my meditations more so based on the runes on more of a level than I have been doing as well, but in all honesty what I have been doing seems to be right for me. Either way its a little refreshing to go onto here and discuss things like this.


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Re: Sigils

Postby Coervus » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:11 pm

I know it's prone to be an unpopular opinion, but the magic is in the practitioner not in the symbols. I think the reason that a lot of Modern English speakers are so drawn to Elder futhark is the same reason that the Nazis did. It is a system that bears a resemblance to our own but which is far enough removed to be unrecognizable. It carries with it a lot of cultural baggage around the Nordic people which was important to Germans for entirely racist reasons. It is important to us more so because we don't think of them in the same way we think of other Europeans. Ancient Greek, and Etruscan carry similarly Arcane alphabets whose origins are shrouded in mystery. But those civilizations did not do us the courtesy of being conquered and having their cultures utterly destroyed, and so their symbolic systems evolved over time into the systems that we use today to file Court petitions and sign permission slips for our children. I think it is that familiarity which breeds contempt for these symbols. The Nazis were looking for some kind of fabled lost arianism but they could hatken back to in their quest for cultural Supremacy. And while I'm sure that is the appeal for some of our modern neo-nazis as well, I think it is more of the sense of A Lost Civilization that draws our attention to this system.

In my opinion, runes are just so many yantras that you're using to focus your own intent and your own ideas about what it is you're trying to do. It can be done just as well with mandalas or another alphabet or a constructed alphabet made up from Whole cloth. And all of these have strong traditions in the magical community of being done. I think most notably Hebrew has had its letters fetishized above and beyond any other living language.

Of course back in the Golden Age of occultism there was extensive and really kind of insane fixation on Egyptian hieroglyphs, which fell down pretty hard after archaeologists discover the Rosetta Stone and discovered that many of those magical texts were actually registers for a market stall selling wood or something.

Just like politicians prefer to cite great and revolutionary political and human rights leaders only after they are dead, because a living Martin Luther King can snap back and let you know you're a fascist, so to do magic practitioners prefer dead languages because a dead language is not likely to show up on your kids homework or demanding money from you in the mail.



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Re: Sigils

Postby darkwing dook » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:50 pm

Rrr you might wanna hold back those political/ideological buzzwords.


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Re: Sigils

Postby Coervus » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:05 am

Too late for me to edit it. I hope that letting my poor opinion of Nazis slip isn't a dealbreaker.



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Re: Sigils

Postby darkwing dook » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:44 am

Huh

Coervus wrote:I think the reason that a lot of Modern English speakers are so drawn to Elder futhark is the same reason that the Nazis did. It is a system that bears a resemblance to our own but which is far enough removed to be unrecognizable. It carries with it a lot of cultural baggage around the Nordic people which was important to Germans for entirely racist reasons. It is important to us more so because we don't think of them in the same way we think of other Europeans. ...The Nazis were looking for some kind of fabled lost arianism but they could hatken back to in their quest for cultural Supremacy. And while I'm sure that is the appeal for some of our modern neo-nazis as well, I think it is more of the sense of A Lost Civilization that draws our attention to this system.

So you think Modern English speakers who are drawn to Elder Futhark are neo-nazis?

Politics etc are in general a no no in the forum. Looking back at recent events, divisive topics like this are not allowed.


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Re: Sigils

Postby Coervus » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:51 pm

I regret that this is the message you took away from that. I don't think that at all.

I think that "lost civilizations" are attractive to people at large, and that allure applied to Nazis as well, perhaps moreso. Likewise there is a nice fixation on Atlantis as a lost source of magical knowledge that seems to have no negative political attachments at all, and checks all the same boxes.

Unfortunately, Atlantis didn't leave us a wealth of artifacts to chew on by virtue of it probably having never been a place in the physical plane.



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Re: Sigils

Postby SullyTheStag » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:21 pm

I'll reply to a certain part of what you said because of the political controversy that can come up, but what you said about other languages evolving into a more so written thing and a more so actual language did also happen to the elder futhark which is seen with the younger futhark and eventually the latinized futhark which is essentially a written language but I do understand what you mean about it being a lost culture, but there again lots of other cultures are. As for what you say about the Egyptian hieroglyphics being market registers, the main thing about runes is there is evidence showing how they had different purposes compared to hieroglyphics. Either way I completely understand where and why you think the way you do. Also sorry if I may have caused any political drama as that was never my intention. I do however enjoy the discussions about this minus the political parts of course.


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