Paradoxical wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:20 pm I don't know where you guys get the idea of ilmu khodam from. Ilmu khodam if translated to English is knowledge of companion. Khodam means companion (jin), ilmu means knowledge. It's mainly used for santet (hurt someone from afar), kebal (invulnerability), pengasihan (making business have a lot of customer or for making someone madly in love with you), nyambat(make a khodam posses your body as a medium for divination or just for fighting) .. So it's not a race or something like that. It's a knowledge about how to utilize spirit. Because there's a lot difference between my country (Indonesia) and another country. In my country, people using magick is not strange at all. More importantly for business purposes. It's not secret at all. Elite people here (president and a likes) are not banning the use of it or making it secret as in Europe or America. So, even there's a padépokan (Magick school) here.

1. It's not about the ilmu of khodam, but about khodam itself.

2. Different practitioners, different traditions, etc may have different knowledge, interpretation, or understanding. One example, these:
http://www.azizshamanism.com/truth-of-the-khodam/
https://www.indomagic.com/blog/enigmati ... nications/

When you folks say Khodam, what do you mean by that?
Are you classifying Khodam as a separate race that can have variations? So there’s Ilmu khodam and djinn khodam — does this means there can be fairy khodam or vampire khodam?
I can understand when arabs and/or Muslims express their opinion regarding khodams. To Muslims, khodam is a race of entities between angels and djinns. Not yet ascended and pure as angels yet not as “awful” or fearful as djinn. But they are just that; khodams. No djinn or any variations added to the title.
Ilmu khodam has always fascinated me when I first heard about them especially that the wording is off if you’re using Arabic language. It should be Khodam/khodamu al ilm, not the other way around.
Some consider khodams to be hafaza malikat/guardian angels, and have no free will. Some sees them as Mukails/assigned workers, with free will but leaning always towards doing good and being WA. So it makes me wonder how does Khodam djinn operate? Are they WA? Are they strictly believers? What race of djinn? As each of race of djinn is extremely different in their acceptance of humans.
Yes; Muslims have different traditional heritage and it’s not the same in each country or region. But Khodams are viewed the same way generally.

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 am I can understand when arabs and/or Muslims express their opinion regarding khodams. To Muslims, khodam is a race of entities between angels and djinns. Not yet ascended and pure as angels yet not as “awful” or fearful as djinn.

That's incorrect.
In mainstream Islamic tradition, there's only angel, djinn, and human. Khodam, including qarin, is considered djinn.
Khodam as a distinct race would be something from folk belief or sufi tradition etc.

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 amIlmu khodam has always fascinated me when I first heard about them especially that the wording is off if you’re using Arabic language. It should be Khodam/khodamu al ilm, not the other way around.

Ilmu khodam is from Malay or Indonesian language, not pure Arabic. The meaning should be the practice (knowledge or ability) of conjuring and keeping khodam, not the khodam that can grant you knowledge or ability.

I never heard of khodam and Ilmu khodam until after I got in touch with the maintenance of the spirit.
But it is really interesting to learn about it.

darkwing dook wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:56 pm

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:31 am I can understand when arabs and/or Muslims express their opinion regarding khodams. To Muslims, khodam is a race of entities between angels and djinns. Not yet ascended and pure as angels yet not as “awful” or fearful as djinn.

That's incorrect.
In mainstream Islamic tradition, there's only angel, djinn, and human. Khodam, including qarin, is considered djinn.
Khodam as a distinct race would be something from folk belief or sufi tradition etc.

That is incorrect lol No seriously though - mainstraim islamic traditions have angels, Demons/Shaitans, and djinn, along with humans.

Qarins are believed to be a bad influence except prophet Mohammed who’s Qarin is controlled. It’s believed that they are djinns but certainly not khodams.

Those who are into the metaphysical believe in Khodam as a separate race which is not as pure as angels yet not as “evil” djinn. They are the watchers of Quran verses and/or those who exist to help humans in spirituality and the metaphysical and learning of magic. Khodams are often mixed with Muwakals — and how their main job is watching over Quranic verses and letters. So when you read Quran, you get their blessings.
If you want something more, you recite the Quranic verses and pray “ the khodams of these verses, please do such and such”.

I’ve seen some courses online to teach you how to connect and utilize the existing of Khodams. Now whether it’s sunni, Shiite, suffi, I don’t know. But among Muslims, Khodams are a race on its own if you’re diving deep into the metaphysical.

What if I told you that Muslims believe in Faes too? Do you see that in mainstraim? No. But a lot of Muslims do believe in faes especially water-dwelling faes. And there are many folklores created around these water faes who are believed to be evil.

I guess it’s a matter of what I’ve known, seen, taught, witnessed, and learnt as an Arab Muslim vs what you read online. The most famous Arabic magic books are in Arabic and use old, complicated language that non-Arabs will not understand or even grasp even if they were translated.

I have to give it to Indonesians for they have created their own magick as opposed to the Arabic one. There are many differences, and if you use the Indonesian cultural magick and traditions as your main resource then you and I will disagree on a lot of things.

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 amThat is incorrect lol No seriously though - mainstraim islamic traditions have angels, Demons/Shaitans, and djinn, along with humans.

Which Islamic tradition are you talking about? And what's their reference, which verse of Quran and Hadith? Since there's no mention of shaitan's origin as its own origin in both sources, while there's one that mentions shaitan may be human or jinn, implying that it's not a class but designation:
https://corpus.quran.com/translation.js ... &verse=112

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 amQarins are believed to be a bad influence except prophet Mohammed who’s Qarin is controlled. It’s believed that they are djinns but certainly not khodams.

They are considered as khodam according to certain Javanese Islamic mystics, i.e. an example of folk belief.

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 amThose who are into the metaphysical believe in Khodam as a separate race ...
...
But among Muslims, Khodams are a race on its own if you’re diving deep into the metaphysical.

And those muslims who are into the occult supernatural practice are not the representative of mainstream Islamic followers. They may acknowledge that khodam is a separate race from angel and jinn, but the majority of muslims who avoid the occult don't, and some would even accuse them as musrik, kafir, etc.

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 amThey are the watchers of Quran verses and/or those who exist to help humans in spirituality and the metaphysical and learning of magic. Khodams are often mixed with Muwakals — and how their main job is watching over Quranic verses and letters. So when you read Quran, you get their blessings.

That is also not mainstream Islamic teachings. Why? No reference in Quran and Hadith, and the majority who are not involved in esoteric tradition wouldn't know.
You can't just mix esoteric teachings as mainstream teachings, unless the mainstream teachings publicly acknowledge it. Not only in Islam, the same for Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, and other religions. There's a reason why it's esoteric and no exoteric.

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 amWhat if I told you that Muslims believe in Faes too? Do you see that in mainstraim? No. But a lot of Muslims do believe in faes especially water-dwelling faes. And there are many folklores created around these water faes who are believed to be evil.

1. Again, it's more about folk belief than mainstream Islam.
2. In mainstream Islamic standard, those faes would be considered jinn. Even the sea goddess of ancient Indonesia belief is considered as jinn according to the local Islamic teaching.

SurajSyrah wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 am The most famous Arabic magic books are in Arabic and use old, complicated language that non-Arabs will not understand or even grasp even if they were translated.

Aren't those magic books banned in Arabic countries? Because the mainstream Islamic tradition
doesn't allow magic, that may even get you death penalty if they catch you?

I would advise everyone to stick to topic, now it is getting theological. Feel free to open another topic for theological discussion.