can't help you with mind control to remove someone's freewill as I will not attempt that. but if your definition of mind control is manipulation/mental suggestions to the target so the outcome is in your favour, then perhaps si'lat djinns (from billy bladez). I've done a few tasking/wishing involving areas of manipulation and they have done consistently well with no issues.

but you can't have the odds completely against you though. they need something to work with, even if it's a small chance that things may turn in your favour.

Topic moved to suitable section.

@Lewk Thanks so much for all your help.

Thanks everyone who replied and the moderator as well. Right after I typed it I thought again about it should be under dark arts!

Mizu-Taki wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:20 pm To the above people, it all depends on perspective and path. I am more of a black magician so I have no problem with using manipulation and mind control, but that's just because I am on more of a darker path.

And to the OP, if your looking for a spirit to help you, the spirit Orias is a good choice for manipulation.
He does this through mind control. He can legit force someone to help you out or do what you want.
It’s as if someone is pressing the targets head from the inside, stopping all thought and/or focusing their mind on just one thought, until they overpower him (which is very unlikely unless they know they’re getting manipulated), or they fulfill the request, and once they do Orias lets them go.

You can call on him for a lot of different matters related to manipulation.

I know this is old, but this is the path I seek. Any guidance?

Mars08 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:08 pm

Mizu-Taki wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:20 pm To the above people, it all depends on perspective and path. I am more of a black magician so I have no problem with using manipulation and mind control, but that's just because I am on more of a darker path.

And to the OP, if your looking for a spirit to help you, the spirit Orias is a good choice for manipulation.
He does this through mind control. He can legit force someone to help you out or do what you want.
It’s as if someone is pressing the targets head from the inside, stopping all thought and/or focusing their mind on just one thought, until they overpower him (which is very unlikely unless they know they’re getting manipulated), or they fulfill the request, and once they do Orias lets them go.

You can call on him for a lot of different matters related to manipulation.

I know this is old, but this is the path I seek. Any guidance?

What is the path you seek? Do you mean to work with a being like Orias?

Basically mind control influence can be used in a Dark Arts way, Neutral Arts and some versions in a White Arts way, afaik. The dividing line is where an attempt is made to completely remove a person's free will (which is not only a bad idea but apparently very very hard to achieve). When I've used mind control influence directly myself, it has seemed to work like just one more magical nudge for things to go in the right direction.

Even working with what some call demons, eg the Goetia, is largely a DA project. (It's not my practice, so I can't help on that.)

The Creepy Hollows definition of Black Arts can be found here...

topic20345.html
https://www.creepyhollows.com/faq/index ... black+arts

The warning about BA (as defined by CH) is that a) BA beings are inherently malicious, including towards someone who wants to be their keeper; and b) with magic, it's of a very dark ie evil origin. It's not necessary to cross the line into sending malicious/evil/harm/wrongdoing influences out into the world. And it's very risky for the would be user. We're as likely to get what we went from DA/NA/WA.

A lot of what some practitioners and customers talk about as BA is what CH would call DA. The same goes for some of the 'demons'. Christianity has typically called Succubi demons but CH terms them DA, for example.

With all of that in mind, I think the poster above in this thread who mentioned Orias is working with them as a very dark being, not an evil one.