Hello!

I am curious about something. As someone who has read about black arts spirits, and has only kept white arts spirits themselves, what is the appeal of keeping a black arts spirit versus a dark arts spirit? I do not ask this with the intent to be snarky; I am genuinely curious.

What do black arts spirits do that dark arts cannot? How do you task a black arts spirit, and how long do you keep them? It sounds like a very risky endeavor, so I wonder what the payoff is?

I also will say I have a lot of respect for those who keep and work with black arts spirits successfully (and responsibly), and for a long time. It's certainly not something I could ever do. I'd be too scared, and they would take advantage of that I'm sure.

Anyway, please feel free to share your thoughts on this. Thank you.

The appeal for people here is usually based off of misinformation. People are uneducated about what true 'Black Arts' really means, they tend to see it as the 'darkest of dark' and 'most powerful/intense' for being that way. Some persons are disturbed and their attraction is based on mental disturbance, which is unfortunate as being pulled into that will only worsen their condition rather than providing reconciliation.

Most here who think they are 'working with' 'Black Arts'.. are not. They would not be capable of handling an actual encounter with a presence fitting the malice category.
There are sellers in the community who label their conjures 'Black Arts', which is either based on a personal distinction for them or the fact they just want to make sales and 'Black Arts' sells to naive persons who think they are 'most powerful'. If any of the sellers in the community are openly offering truly malicious bindings, those are forced bindings or the seller has been tricked into thinking they have asserted control.

That's about it.

Vipera aspis atra wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:34 pm

The appeal for people here is usually based off of misinformation. People are uneducated about what true 'Black Arts' really means, they tend to see it as the 'darkest of dark' and 'most powerful/intense' for being that way. Some persons are disturbed and their attraction is based on mental disturbance, which is unfortunate as being pulled into that will only worsen their condition rather than providing reconciliation.

Most here who think they are 'working with' 'Black Arts'.. are not. They would not be capable of handling an actual encounter with a presence fitting the malice category.
There are sellers in the community who label their conjures 'Black Arts', which is either based on a personal distinction for them or the fact they just want to make sales and 'Black Arts' sells to naive persons who think they are 'most powerful'. If any of the sellers in the community are openly offering truly malicious bindings, those are forced bindings or the seller has been tricked into thinking they have asserted control.

That's about it.

This is good to know, thank you. This is the main reason I would never work with them myself. Too much risk, very very little payoff, if none at all. I'd like to keep myself safe from that.

Vipera aspis atra wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:34 pm

The appeal for people here is usually based off of misinformation. People are uneducated about what true 'Black Arts' really means, they tend to see it as the 'darkest of dark' and 'most powerful/intense' for being that way. Some persons are disturbed and their attraction is based on mental disturbance, which is unfortunate as being pulled into that will only worsen their condition rather than providing reconciliation.

Most here who think they are 'working with' 'Black Arts'.. are not. They would not be capable of handling an actual encounter with a presence fitting the malice category.
There are sellers in the community who label their conjures 'Black Arts', which is either based on a personal distinction for them or the fact they just want to make sales and 'Black Arts' sells to naive persons who think they are 'most powerful'. If any of the sellers in the community are openly offering truly malicious bindings, those are forced bindings or the seller has been tricked into thinking they have asserted control.

That's about it.

I saw some conjurers who make clear on their side, that they don't like the categorizing of WA, DA and BA, because the definitions vary strongly. They prefer to make clear, that they won't make any bindings with malicious beings. Still they use the terms, as those are well known and people have an idea what to expect. Some are working on own categories for more clarity.
If those conjurers offer a BA being, you need to know what you're getting yourself into, but the being doesn't have malicious intentions. But definitely attitude and character you must be able and willing to handle.

ilinga wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:39 am

Vipera aspis atra wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:34 pm

The appeal for people here is usually based off of misinformation. People are uneducated about what true 'Black Arts' really means, they tend to see it as the 'darkest of dark' and 'most powerful/intense' for being that way. Some persons are disturbed and their attraction is based on mental disturbance, which is unfortunate as being pulled into that will only worsen their condition rather than providing reconciliation.

Most here who think they are 'working with' 'Black Arts'.. are not. They would not be capable of handling an actual encounter with a presence fitting the malice category.
There are sellers in the community who label their conjures 'Black Arts', which is either based on a personal distinction for them or the fact they just want to make sales and 'Black Arts' sells to naive persons who think they are 'most powerful'. If any of the sellers in the community are openly offering truly malicious bindings, those are forced bindings or the seller has been tricked into thinking they have asserted control.

That's about it.

I saw some conjurers who make clear on their side, that they don't like the categorizing of WA, DA and BA, because the definitions vary strongly. They prefer to make clear, that they won't make any bindings with malicious beings. Still they use the terms, as those are well known and people have an idea what to expect. Some are working on own categories for more clarity.
If those conjurers offer a BA being, you need to know what you're getting yourself into, but the being doesn't have malicious intentions. But definitely attitude and character you must be able and willing to handle.

Huh! That's very interesting, thank you.

I was imagining a rating system the other day to describe spirits and entities. It would go something like:

Beneficent
Semi-Beneficent
Neutral
Semi-Baneful
Malignant

and then the second categories would be:

No Freewill
Some Freewill (with limits)
Full Freewill

I'd set it up in a table similar to the DND alignments. The first set of qualifiers are, of course, subjective. Like, what is Baneful to me might not be to another person, so I'd offer some examples for those categories.

mochi.icecream wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:57 pm

I was imagining a rating system the other day to describe spirits and entities. It would go something like:

Beneficent
Semi-Beneficent
Neutral
Semi-Baneful
Malignant

and then the second categories would be:

No Freewill
Some Freewill (with limits)
Full Freewill

I'd set it up in a table similar to the DND alignments. The first set of qualifiers are, of course, subjective. Like, what is Baneful to me might not be to another person, so I'd offer some examples for those categories.

That's a very interesting system, thank you for sharing!

mochi.icecream wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:57 pm

I was imagining a rating system the other day to describe spirits and entities. It would go something like:

Beneficent
Semi-Beneficent
Neutral
Semi-Baneful
Malignant

and then the second categories would be:

No Freewill
Some Freewill (with limits)
Full Freewill

I'd set it up in a table similar to the DND alignments. The first set of qualifiers are, of course, subjective. Like, what is Baneful to me might not be to another person, so I'd offer some examples for those categories.

I agree. I would be happy to ditch the use of "white" for "good", and "black" for "evil", because human history is littered with racist attempts to paint one group as superior to others, based on whiteness or blackness (or at least non-whiteness). Anyone who has been subjected to mistreatment because of those prejudices is going to have emotional baggage surrounding that kind of terminology, so I think it would benefit everyone if we just create a whole new vocabulary that's less emotionally charged for everyone.

I try to use the terms "beneficial", "neutral", and "baneful" instead of "white", "grey/dark", and "black" arts. The way CH defines the two extreme ends of this spectrum, only the beings in the middle group have a choice as to what actions to take. The beneficial (WA) beings can never choose malice. The baneful (BA) beings can only be malicious. Only the neutral (DA/Grey Arts) beings have the option of choosing to do good or evil. Which is not to say that those who reside on the beneficial-only end of the spectrum can't wipe the floor with an opponent. WA/beneficial protective spirits can lambast whoever is attacking their charge. What they can't do is run around deciding to beat the daylights out of others just to amuse themselves. That is not in their nature. Conversely, the baneful/BA spirits can ONLY choose malice. They can't take pity on a being that can't stand up to them. They WANT to cause damage and suffering, they WANT to twist the terms of any pact they've made so they can cause it to backfire on the other party, etc. They haven't got the option to view the universe in any other way.

This is why CH does not list BA/purely baneful beings. They don't want to send a literally dangerous spirit or entity into someone's home. If I were them, I wouldn't want to do that, either. If I am adding a new family member, I want them to be capable of being an ally to me, and any being who is "all malice, all the time" isn't going to be an ally to me or anyone. They would rather use my life, and everyone in it, for target practice, and there is no way I would intentionally invite a being with that mindset to be anywhere near me.

I've always equated the word "white" with the meaning of being in the light and "black" as the absence of light, e.g. the black hole which is so strong that light can't escape. From the beginning of time, people have always been afraid of being in the dark. Humans can't see as well in the dark and that meant that they could be taken by a surprise attack...

Anyhow, I agree with @Vipera aspis atra that I think some people are drawn to the BA/baneful beings because they associate it with power and/or are mentally disturbed. This isn't to say that BA/baneful beings aren't very potent because I believe that they can be and are, which is why I have a lot of WA/DA protective spirits and objects and spells around me at all times. And, this is also not to say that the WA/beneficial beings aren't very potent because I believe that they can be and are, too, which is why I have a lot of protective WA/DA spirits and objects and spells around me at all times.