My good friend learned from a professional that he supposedly has an unfulfilled covenant or contract with the Goetic demon Baal. Any advice or insights on how he should proceed from here? He wants to break the covenant/contract, but he doesn’t remember making it, and isn’t sure what it is exactly. He’s also not sure if it’s even there.

Independently, does he have reason to suspect there was such a problem? Did he have any signs, indications, things going a particular way in his life, circumstances that could lead to such a conclusion outside of what he was told? Is this professional suggesting it's a pact from this lifetime or a past life? If it's from this lifetime, is there any reason to suspect he had involved himself with the Goetia/ancient pagan spirits, does he have history interacting with entities or deities? Is he a magic or spiritual practitioner?

This professional may have picked up on something else and misinterpreted it, they could also be talking about a past life of his, a parallel life, if there is any accuracy to their methods.

However, if there is no way he has consciously involved himself with entities, asking incorporeal beings to provide a service or take on some role for him, then it is impossible this is relevant to him here and now. If the professional is suggesting he could have made the pact unconsciously, then they don't understand how a pact works. You would need to seriously make the intention palpable, and you would be having communications, receiving signs relating to fulfillment of the pact. In the first place you would have needed to clearly offer something desirable to the being, and even desirable offers don't make these beings instantly want to work for/with you. There are a lot of ideas about 'demonic pacts' that come out of Hollywood and stick with people, or get into their minds through fearmongering religious tactics.

There are many finer details about 'Baal' for that matter that would make me highly suspicious of those having direct pacts with him, or under that name.

If he has reason to suspect this could be possible because he is a spiritual/magical practitioner then advice can be given. If he has been plagued by issues and was told by this professional that this is the cause, that opens up a broader question of what could be happening.
If nothing abnormal is going on with him before receiving this info then I really don't think it's something to worry about. Why did he go to the professional in the first place?

Vipera aspis atra wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:21 am Independently, does he have reason to suspect there was such a problem? Did he have any signs, indications, things going a particular way in his life, circumstances that could lead to such a conclusion outside of what he was told? Is this professional suggesting it's a pact from this lifetime or a past life? If it's from this lifetime, is there any reason to suspect he had involved himself with the Goetia/ancient pagan spirits, does he have history interacting with entities or deities? Is he a magic or spiritual practitioner?

No, independently he doesn’t have any reason to suspect there was a problem, and there’s no signs of anything amiss as far as he can tell.

According to the person who worked with him, an Agent of Baal contacted her and said he has an unfulfilled covenant. She dropped him immediately because they believe it’s unsafe for a trainer to interact with someone in that position because being involved in breaking a contract will also impact them. She also said she removed a mark from Bune that he had.

As far as practices go, he was corded in a Wiccan coven, was the lowest level, and he attempted to commune with the Roman pantheon, looking for his parents (deity parents). He’s also engaged in various meditation practices.

Vipera aspis atra wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:21 am
However, if there is no way he has consciously involved himself with entities, asking incorporeal beings to provide a service or take on some role for him, then it is impossible this is relevant to him here and now. If the professional is suggesting he could have made the pact unconsciously, then they don't understand how a pact works. You would need to seriously make the intention palpable, and you would be having communications, receiving signs relating to fulfillment of the pact. In the first place you would have needed to clearly offer something desirable to the being, and even desirable offers don't make these beings instantly want to work for/with you. There are a lot of ideas about 'demonic pacts' that come out of Hollywood and stick with people, or get into their minds through fearmongering religious tactics.

There are many finer details about 'Baal' for that matter that would make me highly suspicious of those having direct pacts with him, or under that name.

The person he worked with stated that if he was in an emotional state or intense dream state, he could’ve reached out unconsciously, made a pact, and had his memory wiped afterwards. Doesn’t make a lot of sense in his mind, and based on what you’re saying, this doesn’t seem like a possibility, and if it was, it’s hard to see how this would benefit the entity.

Vipera aspis atra wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:21 am
If he has reason to suspect this could be possible because he is a spiritual/magical practitioner then advice can be given. If he has been plagued by issues and was told by this professional that this is the cause, that opens up a broader question of what could be happening.
If nothing abnormal is going on with him before receiving this info then I really don't think it's something to worry about. Why did he go to the professional in the first place?

Yeah, this was the first time he’s heard about this, and he has no other indications of this being true except from what they told him. They claimed his Dantian was damaged, so he paid them for a session to talk about it, where they gave him a qi gong set on YouTube to heal it. Sounds far fetched to me.

Sterling Birch wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:35 am My good friend learned from a professional that he supposedly has an unfulfilled covenant or contract with the Goetic demon Baal. Any advice or insights on how he should proceed from here? He wants to break the covenant/contract, but he doesn’t remember making it, and isn’t sure what it is exactly. He’s also not sure if it’s even there.

Vipera has already provided a comprehensive explanation, and I would like to offer my two cents. However, detecting another person's pact is not possible unless explicitly disclosed. This is because a pact is an inherently private matter, known only to the individuals involved. Even if this "professional" possesses the ability to perceive energies and identifies the presence of Baal, assuming the existence of a pact is a bold presumption.

If your friend has expressed a desire for something that seems unattainable and has sought the assistance of a practitioner, it is possible that this practitioner has made a pact with a deity on his behalf. We can only assume that he has such a pact without his knowledge. However, your friend was fully aware of the consequences and willingly granted permission for this arrangement. In any case, all interactions will be conducted solely between the practitioner and the deities involved.

If there was a pact in a past life, it's possible for this practitioner to sense the energy of the deity and potentially uncover information about this unfulfilled agreement. However, this is still quite unlikely. Therefore, I don't believe your friend needs to worry. I'm uncertain about the source of this professional. If, as you mentioned, his memory has been erased, then it becomes crucial for them to ensure that he remembers in order to fulfill his end of the bargain. So it just makes no sense.

It doesn't sound like he's actually in any sort of trouble then. Can give the practitioner benefit of the doubt and say it's a misunderstanding perhaps. It's always weird when practitioners throw around names from Goetia or known 'demon' titles with people that aren't connected to the tradition as there are such a plethora of beings in the universe. We're far more likely to unconsciously interact with beings not known to historical record.

Baal just means 'lord' anyway and technically speaking when we talk about Baal we could be referring to so many different entities. I've been connected with Ba'al zabub for instance - Beelzebub - since very young.
It's easy for people to regurgitate names, titles and designations based on what they have heard or read, and doesn't provide any convincing evidence they have insider knowledge that a truly discerning psychic/channeler would understand.

Sterling Birch wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:56 am No, independently he doesn’t have any reason to suspect there was a problem, and there’s no signs of anything amiss as far as he can tell.

According to the person who worked with him, an Agent of Baal contacted her and said he has an unfulfilled covenant. She dropped him immediately because they believe it’s unsafe for a trainer to interact with someone in that position because being involved in breaking a contract will also impact them. She also said she removed a mark from Bune that he had.

As far as practices go, he was corded in a Wiccan coven, was the lowest level, and he attempted to commune with the Roman pantheon, looking for his parents (deity parents). He’s also engaged in various meditation practices.

The person he worked with stated that if he was in an emotional state or intense dream state, he could’ve reached out unconsciously, made a pact, and had his memory wiped afterwards. Doesn’t make a lot of sense in his mind, and based on what you’re saying, this doesn’t seem like a possibility, and if it was, it’s hard to see how this would benefit the entity.

Yeah, this was the first time he’s heard about this, and he has no other indications of this being true except from what they told him. They claimed his Dantian was damaged, so he paid them for a session to talk about it, where they gave him a qi gong set on YouTube to heal it. Sounds far fetched to me.

It's true, "Baal" is a title meaning "lord" or "master.” Different Baals represented different deities of different regions. However, in the context of your intention, "Bael" (who many know as Baal) is considered to be a powerful demon, specifically within the Ars Goetia where he is regarded as an infernal commander.

It is important to consider the source of his belief that his parents are deities. Without concrete confirmation, he may encounter various practitioners and receive misleading information. In my personal experience, before this path, I have received assistance from a deity without considering them to be my parental figure. If he truly had divine parents, he would likely feel a strong connection to specific deities, potentially experiencing their presence in dreams or even daily life. However, if no such encounters have occurred, it seems unlikely. I mention this because relying solely on this information could have negative consequences in the long term.

Furthermore, continuing to collaborate with that coven and practitioner may lead to further misinterpretations. Taking a cautious approach, it would be wise for him to cease all communication with them, thus avoiding potential complications. Moreover, if he claims to bear a mark from Bune/Bime, it implies that he owes a separate entity another form of recompense to have acquired such a mark. It is important to understand that a mark is typically only removed upon fulfilling specific conditions or settling the owed debt. Consequently, it seems highly unlikely for anyone else to have effortlessly erased the mark. I hope this clarifies the situation.

Sterling Birch wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:56 am No, independently he doesn’t have any reason to suspect there was a problem, and there’s no signs of anything amiss as far as he can tell.

According to the person who worked with him, an Agent of Baal contacted her and said he has an unfulfilled covenant. She dropped him immediately because they believe it’s unsafe for a trainer to interact with someone in that position because being involved in breaking a contract will also impact them. She also said she removed a mark from Bune that he had.

As far as practices go, he was corded in a Wiccan coven, was the lowest level, and he attempted to commune with the Roman pantheon, looking for his parents (deity parents). He’s also engaged in various meditation practices.

The person he worked with stated that if he was in an emotional state or intense dream state, he could’ve reached out unconsciously, made a pact, and had his memory wiped afterwards. Doesn’t make a lot of sense in his mind, and based on what you’re saying, this doesn’t seem like a possibility, and if it was, it’s hard to see how this would benefit the entity.

Yeah, this was the first time he’s heard about this, and he has no other indications of this being true except from what they told him. They claimed his Dantian was damaged, so he paid them for a session to talk about it, where they gave him a qi gong set on YouTube to heal it. Sounds far fetched to me.

My phone browser froze and I was timed out, preventing me from editing the previous post. However, when I mentioned deity parents, what I meant by negative consequences was that your friend would probably go through various channels and seek confirmation from different sources. This process could potentially be quite costly and require significant effort, and there is no shortage of outlandish messages if there is nothing to validate his beliefs. On the other hand, if there truly are deity parents involved, one of them or both will undoubtedly have a profound presence in his life, making it clear that there is no need to seek further confirmation elsewhere.

I completely agree with Vipera. It's quite puzzling how many prestigious titles and prominent names were thrown around without any real meaning or logic. However, there's no need for him to fret. He should have nothing to worry about, whether it be a mere mark or an unfinished matter. Moreover, a "mark" could represent something entirely different and unrelated to a debt. It cannot be removed by just anyone, but only by the entity that made it.

If your friend is truly committed to his practice, he should focus on developing his own communication skills instead of relying on others to do it for him. Seeking the assistance of a psychic often leads to misinterpretations and misunderstandings, which is why I never resorted to it even when I was blind and deaf. It is far preferable to avoid being misguided. Furthermore, I strongly believe that your friend should conduct thorough research before joining any new coven. This will ensure that he finds a community that aligns with his values and offers the support he requires. And that they're actually legit.

Thank you, it’s reassuring to hear others with more experience mirror my views on this. I was under the impression that it seemed really far fetched, and likely some kind of misunderstanding/miscommunication on the practitioners part like Vipera mentioned. He’s ceased most, of not all, communication with them now, and if they reach out, he’s highly skeptical now of anything they claim.

Tarvos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:54 am
… when I mentioned deity parents, what I meant by negative consequences was that your friend would probably go through various channels and seek confirmation from different sources. This process could potentially be quite costly and require significant effort, and there is no shortage of outlandish messages if there is nothing to validate his beliefs. On the other hand, if there truly are deity parents involved, one of them or both will undoubtedly have a profound presence in his life, making it clear that there is no need to seek further confirmation elsewhere.

The deity parents is an interesting topic. He mentioned to me that it was related to Wiccan tradition/practices. I’m not too familiar with it, so it’s hard for me to comment on it. It makes a lot of sense to me that if a relationship like this existed that there would be signs of it. I could be misunderstanding the tradition though, I’m not sure.

Tarvos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:54 am
If your friend is truly committed to his practice, he should focus on developing his own communication skills instead of relying on others to do it for him. Seeking the assistance of a psychic often leads to misinterpretations and misunderstandings, which is why I never resorted to it even when I was blind and deaf. It is far preferable to avoid being misguided. Furthermore, I strongly believe that your friend should conduct thorough research before joining any new coven. This will ensure that he finds a community that aligns with his values and offers the support he requires. And that they're actually legit.

Most definitely. He’s in the process of developing his senses and abilities, and he’s also a relatively new spirit keeper too. I think what you’re suggesting is great advice for any spirit keeper.

Sterling Birch wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:35 pm

Tarvos wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2024 11:54 am
… when I mentioned deity parents, what I meant by negative consequences was that your friend would probably go through various channels and seek confirmation from different sources. This process could potentially be quite costly and require significant effort, and there is no shortage of outlandish messages if there is nothing to validate his beliefs. On the other hand, if there truly are deity parents involved, one of them or both will undoubtedly have a profound presence in his life, making it clear that there is no need to seek further confirmation elsewhere.

The deity parents is an interesting topic. He mentioned to me that it was related to Wiccan tradition/practices. I’m not too familiar with it, so it’s hard for me to comment on it. It makes a lot of sense to me that if a relationship like this existed that there would be signs of it. I could be misunderstanding the tradition though, I’m not sure.

I started out with Wicca and it generally only really talks about "The God and the Goddess", but nothing about parentage; there are some soft polytheist Wiccans who will insert particular deities from other cultures such as Greek, Roman, or Norse into the relevant slot as their primary "God/Goddess", and some other Neo-Pagan paths have a similar "Mater/Pater" or idea of a patron deity. . I do know in modern Kemeticism that there is a "Rite of Parent Divination", which reveals which of the Netjeru have a significant relationship with the follower, It generally does not have to do with a literal divine/soul/astral parentage, though.

And yeah, your friend was absolutely getting scammed.