Lewk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:46 am

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:10 am [...]Advice? Theories?

I wonder if the blocking that you're very aware of is actually a separate issue from the astral projection question.

It may be that you're linking the two things when you don't need to. That could be where the actual block is.

We don't need to be perfect before we astral travel. And to my mind there's no perfect way to astral project or travel.

There are in fact a number of ways to experience it - or maybe they can be called ways in to the astral experience. Perhaps you'll find the right way for you. It may not be the ideal way you're thinking of - or it may be that way (I don't really know).

There's a kind of mind's eye way of leaving the body and astral travelling (in a beta or alpha state, brainwave-wise). At the other end of the scale someone can be in an extremely deep state of relaxation (theta or delta state). The key thing is that astral travel is happening equally in all types of relaxation or awakeness, when you travel. You can remain focused on the method and the journey, while still somewhat conscious of events around you. Or you can be so deep that you're taken by the vision that you lose track of everything else.

Either way our astral body experiences the journey and feeds that info back to our conscious awareness. It's still a real, valid astral journey whether we're mentally quite alert or in a deep trance type of awareness. It's the tone of the experience that varies.

It may help to realise that we all astral travel effortlessly during sleep every night. And many would say that we flit psychically here and there out of our body during our waking hours, which most of us don't quite notice. It may help generally to try not to think of astral projection or travel as such a monumental, difficult Thing to achieve. It may be easy when you know how - but actually I do think it really is pretty easy and natural.

madgar29 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:37 am

Lewk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:46 am

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:10 am [...]Advice? Theories?

I wonder if the blocking that you're very aware of is actually a separate issue from the astral projection question.

It may be that you're linking the two things when you don't need to. That could be where the actual block is.

We don't need to be perfect before we astral travel. And to my mind there's no perfect way to astral project or travel.

There are in fact a number of ways to experience it - or maybe they can be called ways in to the astral experience. Perhaps you'll find the right way for you. It may not be the ideal way you're thinking of - or it may be that way (I don't really know).

There's a kind of mind's eye way of leaving the body and astral travelling (in a beta or alpha state, brainwave-wise). At the other end of the scale someone can be in an extremely deep state of relaxation (theta or delta state). The key thing is that astral travel is happening equally in all types of relaxation or awakeness, when you travel. You can remain focused on the method and the journey, while still somewhat conscious of events around you. Or you can be so deep that you're taken by the vision that you lose track of everything else.

Either way our astral body experiences the journey and feeds that info back to our conscious awareness. It's still a real, valid astral journey whether we're mentally quite alert or in a deep trance type of awareness. It's the tone of the experience that varies.

It may help to realise that we all astral travel effortlessly during sleep every night. And many would say that we flit psychically here and there out of our body during our waking hours, which most of us don't quite notice. It may help generally to try not to think of astral projection or travel as such a monumental, difficult Thing to achieve. It may be easy when you know how - but actually I do think it really is pretty easy and natural.

I didnt understand when she was talking about preparing. not feeling? Lewk are you talking about different types of astral projection or you mixing remote viewing with astral projection? i am just asking. I can see a lot of people confusing remote viewing with astral projecting..... honestly....

also depending on the person...... i think remote viewing might be easier then again u might be able to stay its a form of astral traveling but most remote viewers say they go no where but within to get the information.

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:02 am [...]

This was really interesting and probably really helpful. How do you see astral projecting/traveling or what do you consider to be doing so? I'm actually unable to visualize so taken by a "vision" isn't really something I can do. I don't really even dream in vision, there have been two exceptions to this in my lifetime I can recall. But I have never been able to access visualizing while awake.

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:43 am

Anonymously anonymous wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:50 am

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:10 am I've been honing on strengthening and controlling body-consciousness, both grounding to my body and distancing myself from physical sensations. I've also gotten better control on my state of awareness. I have projected before, not really controlled, but as a safe mechanism. So the experience might be different, but I still believe I have reached the state where projection ought to be possible. And the experiences weren't out of my control as a whole, I had some control, even surprisingly so.


It just feels as if something is holding me back, like parts of me aren't willing to break the body connection and I'm not sure how to fix that. I have had dissociative episodes in the past regressing to a version of myself that didn't have the capacity to comprehend complex concepts. So when there was too much to handle for my conscious mind/self it allowed me to return to a state where my comprehension regresses and the feeling simplifies to something that is easier to process and express, protecting me from my own trauma basically. This is a defense I haven't needed for years. I didn't assimilate as some say they have done with similar experiences, since my states didn't feel anything other then myself, just a regressed version. Still, during these states the experiences were never experienced in or assimilated to my aware consciousness as far as I can tell, so I've attached memories and experiences to these regressed states of myself that aren't in unified as they ought to be. I've tried to make a protected space to ease the process, birched the sauna and washed before in natural water. Just can't seem to let go, I can get to the state where outer edges of my physical body don't feel as if they are keeping me anymore, but something else.


Could it be that I can't astral project since all of my self isn't in "one piece"? Or is it more likely I've protected and bound myself to my body? There is a reason I might've anchored myself to prevent a situation in which nothing has the power to separate myself from my body again. I tattooed a protection symbol I had drawn myself knowing that it had meanings I might've not have been completely aware of. It's protective, that I know, but it's not mainly to protect my aware state. Which is kinda funny because now years later I feel like this is the last step I need to do to process and heal the remnants of the trauma still inhabiting my body.

Advice? Theories?

I am not fully sure what your beliefs are as far as having separate bodies of yourself. Personally my experience is that the universe just observes itself in pieces. We have separate bodies of ourselves but they all make up us. Almost like how the conscious and the subconscious has different jobs in our brain they can control different things but it is still us. This is just my personal experience, and would like to know how you view it if that is possible of course. Have you tried talking to those pieces of yourself? It could possibly help. It is possible that you anchored yourself to your body, but it also sounds like you have come a super long way and made a lot of progress. I am sure you'll be able to achieve what you want at any rate because you are making progress. Journey's of all kind are personal. Find out what works for you. If you are worried about protecting yourself during your astral travel then look more into it before you go. Astral travelling for me is about letting go and finding myself in ways I can't here. I wish you the best of luck on your journey and hopes this helps!

" Have you tried talking to those pieces of yourself?" This was something I thought of a long time but decided against it mainly because of I didn't want to further the separation or strengthen the "otherness" of these states. Instead I went on the route of making this type of protecting myself pointless by honing my ability to anchor to the moment. This included a lot of understanding what I was trying to protect myself from.

I have knowingly tried to avoid the view of seeing any parts of myself as separate. Which is a part why I avoided the method of talking to those parts as if they were so (separate). It's just having had those periods of memories, and all the feelings and processes along them, going to a different "section" that I have no access to make it seem that there are parts of my conscious self I am unable to access. I still view them as part of myself, which is a tricky concept in of it as well, but undoubtedly necessary in some form. I think more in the terms of having an entity of myself, a consciousness separate from others, still viewing the unconscious part of this "entity" a part of the same "self". I'm not you and you're not me and we both have an unconsciousness that is "ours" as much as we have a "self". This get's pretty meta-philosophical if I go on, I'm not sure if this was your point? That expanding my concept of "self" or how I view it could be beneficial in this matter? But moving on how or why I have build my view of myself regarding this issue:

There are clearly two different states depending on the nature of the thing that I've been compelled to avoid or protect myself from. In the past if I have dissociated I have "met" someone (a friend, a therapist) I've already known and after that that person has been known to that regressed state of myself as well. It could be seen as a form of DID as well, but thinking of it as so in the traditional sense just isn't beneficial in my opinion and I've found thinking of it as "regression" to be much more helpful. I have maybe an unusual perception of "time", I don't really think of it as something that unfolds or "happens" but as more a dimension. At a set point we are as we are, the 5 year old or 6 or 12 or 17 old me hasn't disappeared, it's just someone who exist in a different location of time (as well as we'll always carry them with as as we grow "on top" of our already existing selves). The why I have been largely explain to myself by pretty normal psychological development phases as well as with the fact that I didn't experience the trauma I'm coping with until I experienced it.

If you feel like expanding on your views( "Personally my experience is that the universe just observes itself in pieces. We have separate bodies of ourselves but they all make up us. Almost like how the conscious and the subconscious has different jobs in our brain they can control different things but it is still us." ), I'd be interested in understanding it better. I don't believe I disagree with your views in any way thus far and understanding your way of viewing it could even be tremendously helpful.

Anonymously anonymous wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:30 am

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:43 am

Anonymously anonymous wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:50 am

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:10 am I've been honing on strengthening and controlling body-consciousness, both grounding to my body and distancing myself from physical sensations. I've also gotten better control on my state of awareness. I have projected before, not really controlled, but as a safe mechanism. So the experience might be different, but I still believe I have reached the state where projection ought to be possible. And the experiences weren't out of my control as a whole, I had some control, even surprisingly so.


It just feels as if something is holding me back, like parts of me aren't willing to break the body connection and I'm not sure how to fix that. I have had dissociative episodes in the past regressing to a version of myself that didn't have the capacity to comprehend complex concepts. So when there was too much to handle for my conscious mind/self it allowed me to return to a state where my comprehension regresses and the feeling simplifies to something that is easier to process and express, protecting me from my own trauma basically. This is a defense I haven't needed for years. I didn't assimilate as some say they have done with similar experiences, since my states didn't feel anything other then myself, just a regressed version. Still, during these states the experiences were never experienced in or assimilated to my aware consciousness as far as I can tell, so I've attached memories and experiences to these regressed states of myself that aren't in unified as they ought to be. I've tried to make a protected space to ease the process, birched the sauna and washed before in natural water. Just can't seem to let go, I can get to the state where outer edges of my physical body don't feel as if they are keeping me anymore, but something else.


Could it be that I can't astral project since all of my self isn't in "one piece"? Or is it more likely I've protected and bound myself to my body? There is a reason I might've anchored myself to prevent a situation in which nothing has the power to separate myself from my body again. I tattooed a protection symbol I had drawn myself knowing that it had meanings I might've not have been completely aware of. It's protective, that I know, but it's not mainly to protect my aware state. Which is kinda funny because now years later I feel like this is the last step I need to do to process and heal the remnants of the trauma still inhabiting my body.

Advice? Theories?

I am not fully sure what your beliefs are as far as having separate bodies of yourself. Personally my experience is that the universe just observes itself in pieces. We have separate bodies of ourselves but they all make up us. Almost like how the conscious and the subconscious has different jobs in our brain they can control different things but it is still us. This is just my personal experience, and would like to know how you view it if that is possible of course. Have you tried talking to those pieces of yourself? It could possibly help. It is possible that you anchored yourself to your body, but it also sounds like you have come a super long way and made a lot of progress. I am sure you'll be able to achieve what you want at any rate because you are making progress. Journey's of all kind are personal. Find out what works for you. If you are worried about protecting yourself during your astral travel then look more into it before you go. Astral travelling for me is about letting go and finding myself in ways I can't here. I wish you the best of luck on your journey and hopes this helps!

" Have you tried talking to those pieces of yourself?" This was something I thought of a long time but decided against it mainly because of I didn't want to further the separation or strengthen the "otherness" of these states. Instead I went on the route of making this type of protecting myself pointless by honing my ability to anchor to the moment. This included a lot of understanding what I was trying to protect myself from.

I have knowingly tried to avoid the view of seeing any parts of myself as separate. Which is a part why I avoided the method of talking to those parts as if they were so (separate). It's just having had those periods of memories, and all the feelings and processes along them, going to a different "section" that I have no access to make it seem that there are parts of my conscious self I am unable to access. I still view them as part of myself, which is a tricky concept in of it as well, but undoubtedly necessary in some form. I think more in the terms of having an entity of myself, a consciousness separate from others, still viewing the unconscious part of this "entity" a part of the same "self". I'm not you and you're not me and we both have an unconsciousness that is "ours" as much as we have a "self". This get's pretty meta-philosophical if I go on, I'm not sure if this was your point? That expanding my concept of "self" or how I view it could be beneficial in this matter? But moving on how or why I have build my view of myself regarding this issue:

There are clearly two different states depending on the nature of the thing that I've been compelled to avoid or protect myself from. In the past if I have dissociated I have "met" someone (a friend, a therapist) I've already known and after that that person has been known to that regressed state of myself as well. It could be seen as a form of DID as well, but thinking of it as so in the traditional sense just isn't beneficial in my opinion and I've found thinking of it as "regression" to be much more helpful. I have maybe an unusual perception of "time", I don't really think of it as something that unfolds or "happens" but as more a dimension. At a set point we are as we are, the 5 year old or 6 or 12 or 17 old me hasn't disappeared, it's just someone who exist in a different location of time (as well as we'll always carry them with as as we grow "on top" of our already existing selves). The why I have been largely explain to myself by pretty normal psychological development phases as well as with the fact that I didn't experience the trauma I'm coping with until I experienced it.

If you feel like expanding on your views( "Personally my experience is that the universe just observes itself in pieces. We have separate bodies of ourselves but they all make up us. Almost like how the conscious and the subconscious has different jobs in our brain they can control different things but it is still us." ), I'd be interested in understanding it better. I don't believe I disagree with your views in any way thus far and understanding your way of viewing it could even be tremendously helpful.

I can see that point of view of not strengthening separation. The only reason why I asked is because that has personally helped me because I was able to embrace my full self. In my personal beliefs/experience it can be harder for us to fully grasp that we are whole at all times. When I talked to those pieces of myself the conversation went something like, we are the universe just observing itself. However for the universe to have the full experience it broke down in pieces, but it is still whole when all the information comes back. This is what I do as well. So you shadow self, or astral self, or whatever is just broken down for my understanding. This is all me though. It personally helped me see myself more whole. I believe separation is an illusion personally. Journey's are unique to each person so what works for me might not work for you and vice versa. Being in the moment is important, but how you are in the moment also matters. If you are worrying about things are you really in the moment? Of course we have worries, and no one wants to astral travel and end up in a world of hurt. It is always important to understand why we do the things we do. How you view self can benefit you in this matter. My personal belief is; I believe we have the capacity to access all the information that is within us. Expanding how we view self can always be beneficial since we are our personal libraries in a way.

"There are clearly two different states depending on the nature of the thing that I've been compelled to avoid or protect myself from. In the past if I have dissociated I have "met" someone (a friend, a therapist) I've already known and after that that person has been known to that regressed state of myself as well." This part confuses me a little. Are you saying that you know these people, you disassociate, and then only your regressed state knows them after? Or are you saying that when you disassociate it is surprises you that your regressed state knows these people? At some point I thought I had DID too so I understand to extent. I view time the same way.

The universe is vast. I believe the universe broken itself down to experience things in different aspects. Stars, galaxies, black holes, planets, moons, water, animals, being of all sorts. Each experience is unique and different. However at the end of the day the universe is the universe. It is the whole entire thing. We are bits of something whole, and although it is hard for us to feel whole we are. We do something similar too. We break down into pieces just like the universe. Even if you just take our bodies. We are made up of bones, cells, organs, etc.. They are bits and piece of us but it functions our bodies as a whole. It is like we are the universe organs, bones, cells, heart, brain, etc.. I hope I explained myself well. I am super sorry if I didn't.

Lewk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:54 am

Loviatar wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:02 am [...]

This was really interesting and probably really helpful. How do you see astral projecting/traveling or what do you consider to be doing so? I'm actually unable to visualize so taken by a "vision" isn't really something I can do. I don't really even dream in vision, there have been two exceptions to this in my lifetime I can recall. But I have never been able to access visualizing while awake.

It's important that I don't try to give the impression that I'm an expert or authority. Plus some of us may click better with one method than with another and we're all at differing stages of our path or development. However I do have experience of different types of astral travel, as well as of shamanic journeying.

On a theoretical level:-

I believe that however what we can call astral travel happens...whether it's naturally in sleep, or being taken/led by a spirit or spell binding when in a deeply relaxed state, or taken by a CH Living Entity after using the code word, or intentionally by reciting a CH spell/invocation, or intentionally via a learned method of astral projection/travel...what happens is this. Our astral body is what travels in the astral realm. It then feeds back to our conscious mind what it's experiencing.

Can you imagine things? Day dream? If I say that dancing across the ceiling is a parade of pink elephants wearing blue tutus, holding umbrellas, are you saying that really didn't appear in your mind's eye at all? We all have that very simple ability. So we can all experience astral travel / projection. We may experience it in slightly different ways. For me my mental state is usually quite alert. Others may feel like they're in a deep trance.

You probably do dream visually in deep sleep and astral travel too but we forget. If you ever experience sleep deprivation (not recommended) that may become clear. This is why we need to be awake when we travel consciously, so we can remember.

I first did a limited form of astral travel 40 years ago, as part of an absent healing method. Then, as part of the same 'school' of psychic development, I would be on the Moon when doing a planet healing. It's only 10 years ago that I decided to work more with spirits and learned a method of travelling more widely in the astral. Overall I've experienced each type I list above.

When I did a CH version using a master level invocation plus full self protections, I was struck by how smooth and unforced it was. Literally my astral body went on a trip somewhere in the Astral part of the Multiverse while I was conscious. Quite an experience. At no point did I try to leave my body or go anywhere. But, as I'm so used to doing all of that, I was able to recognise and tune in to the process, I guess.

Practical recommendation:-

It has often been said here that it's worth learning a tried and trusted method from a reliable expert. One such is in Robert Bruce's book Astral Dynamics.

I'd suggest learning a method that's more comprehensive than just the leaving the body/projection stage. One that gives a guide to the astral realm itself and what to expect out there. (Or 'In There', as some nowadays think of it.) For me, simply leaving the body to travel around planet Earth is limited - one tiny part of where we can go.

It's also crucial to learn a method that involves self protection. Things manifest almost instantly on the astral - entering in a negative mindset or energy state can attract that kind of experience.

I also think it may help to stop Trying, or thinking we have to force it, or that it's a Big Thing, or hard to achieve. Easy to say but I realise when someone hasn't yet experienced it, it may seem a pointless thing to say.

Loviatar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:47 pm You are amazing! It's incredible to start to get how differently things can be viewed and approached. I've actually not actively "pursuing" astral projection, the points you have made have given me things that feel much more important to work with right now. I'll definitely look into this later on but I kind of got the sense I might not even be ready. My whole take on projecting has changed a lot during the last month and I'm not even sure anymore what I mean by it. I mean that in the best way, I rarely discuss with anyone of these things and I feel as I've missed a lot and have been reviewing all my gathered knowledge and practices. I mean that in the best way, I've feel like I've gotten so much more out of what I've already worked through.

I've already ordered Astral Dynamics! Thanks for the recommendation and feel free to give more!