I was reading this thread: http://www.creepyhollows.com/phpBB3/vie ... 75&t=31715 I don't want to derail it so I thought I'd ask here:

I really don't want to start a huge religious argument, but I was thinking about the concept of Hell. Personally I'm not sure if I even believe in Hell or not (I believe there are some "lower" places, but I'd hope God is more merciful than actually damn people anywhere). But anyway aren't some spirits at least in theory tormented there? So if you believe that Hell exists that'd mean spirits can be tormented in some way?

Also, I wondered what part of a person leaves the body during an OBE. If it's a spirit, I've had sex during OBEs so logically I could also be raped during one if I met someone evil enough (and for some reason couldn't return to my body). Or maybe there's a difference between one's astral body and one's spirit. I know that spirits are dead. Since I'm not dead whatever leaves during an OBE has to be my astral body and not spirit then? Am I on right tracks with this one? :think:

I'm seriously curious about this and not trying to start anything.

Riira wrote:I was reading this thread: http://www.creepyhollows.com/phpBB3/vie ... 75&t=31715 I don't want to derail it so I thought I'd ask here:

I really don't want to start a huge religious argument, but I was thinking about the concept of Hell. Personally I'm not sure if I even believe in Hell or not (I believe there are some "lower" places, but I'd hope God is more merciful than actually damn people anywhere). But anyway aren't some spirits at least in theory tormented there? So if you believe that Hell exists that'd mean spirits can be tormented in some way?

For this one I'm basing on experience and anyone else please butt in. But all Hells and Heaven of all religion exist just like othes kinds of places that would feet the bill, if someone believe in them they would go there until they realise there's something more out there and get free. So if you think about it, you are the one to condemn yourself not God.

The astral is what you create, so if you believe in something you make it real, you can see that some people when going there believe they are safe and never find problems and others that get scared attract bad things. Not saying all this planes are on the astral because I'm sure there's a lot out there but like attrack like in energy.

Riira wrote:
Also, I wondered what part of a person leaves the body during an OBE. If it's a spirit, I've had sex during OBEs so logically I could also be raped during one if I met someone evil enough (and for some reason couldn't return to my body). Or maybe there's a difference between one's astral body and one's spirit. I know that spirits are dead. Since I'm not dead whatever leaves during an OBE has to be my astral body and not spirit then? Am I on right tracks with this one? :think:

About this one I can't talk about everyoneopinion, sex is possible but rape? I would say much more difficult if even possible. if you OBE you know your thoughts and desire shape everything around you, like I said in the other answer fear or believing something bad can happen would be more easy to attract something than it happening on their own or if having a matching energy. But if you OBE you also know you can go where you want when you want, you can change form and even do something like teletransporting to another part. When you go in another plane you go in spirit form, most of time, just like when an entity come here they do in spirit form. So imagine another being that has being a spirit for more time and had other kind of powers before.

Hope this explain and if I made a mistake hope someone butt in.

Riira wrote: I really don't want to start a huge religious argument, but I was thinking about the concept of Hell. Personally I'm not sure if I even believe in Hell or not (I believe there are some "lower" places, but I'd hope God is more merciful than actually damn people anywhere). But anyway aren't some spirits at least in theory tormented there? So if you believe that Hell exists that'd mean spirits can be tormented in some way?
I'm seriously curious about this and not trying to start anything.

None of us can be certain if such a place exists or not. Fact is some people do have "Hellish" NDE's where they are being ravaged by demons endlessly. Who knows?

The primary idealogy with spirit interaction though is to keep in mind it's believed Spirits and Souls are not the same. Everyone will have a different "fate" from one another, but none of us can claim for certain. Regardless of which, we can still interact with the "dead" in some form.

Also, I wondered what part of a person leaves the body during an OBE. If it's a spirit, I've had sex during OBEs so logically I could also be raped during one if I met someone evil enough (and for some reason couldn't return to my body). Or maybe there's a difference between one's astral body and one's spirit.

You dont "leave" your body at all. That's a Misconception created by the impressions of people that think "Out of Body".

You travel "within". The entirety of your consciousness experiences a Dissociative state where it feels like a Waking lucid dream. We still have ties, so whether we explore or stay grounded, the "spirits" still show us what they want to show us. It's nothing more than "data" being transferred from "realms" beyond through our brain.

SPIRITS can't be harmed or killed. Entities? YES THEY CAN.

Thanks for the answers! They gave me a lot to think about and I'm happy no one seemed to get offended by my questions (I'm a bit paranoid like that). I tried to aswer everyone so this gets a bit long, sorry.

Snakat wrote: For this one I'm basing on experience and anyone else please butt in. But all Hells and Heaven of all religion exist just like othes kinds of places that would feet the bill, if someone believe in them they would go there until they realise there's something more out there and get free. So if you think about it, you are the one to condemn yourself not God.

I actually once had a long discussion about this with a friend. My only problem with this idea is that for example a victim with traumas could condemn him/herself to suffer more because s/he feels s/he's evil. In life this often happens (via self-sabotage, self-injury, eating disorders etc.), but it doesn't seem fair this would continue after death.

Snakat wrote:The astral is what you create, so if you believe in something you make it real, you can see that some people when going there believe they are safe and never find problems and others that get scared attract bad things. Not saying all this planes are on the astral because I'm sure there's a lot out there but like attrack like in energy.

This rangs true to me and is good to remember. I get nervous easily and I have really hard time controlling my fear during OBEs. Once I was thinking "at least I don't feel any presence around me" and of course, right at the moment someone was there. :lol: So yeah, thoughts have almost a scary amount of power to create there.

Snakat wrote:About this one I can't talk about everyoneopinion, sex is possible but rape? I would say much more difficult if even possible. if you OBE you know your thoughts and desire shape everything around you, like I said in the other answer fear or believing something bad can happen would be more easy to attract something than it happening on their own or if having a matching energy. But if you OBE you also know you can go where you want when you want, you can change form and even do something like teletransporting to another part.

I logically know I'm in control of my my OBEs, but I still have hard time doing some things in them. For example my mind refuses to accept I could walk through walls so I can't do that. But it's true using my imagination I'd probably find ways to avoid rape (not that I ever want to test it! :ohcrap: ).

Snakat wrote:When you go in another plane you go in spirit form, most of time, just like when an entity come here they do in spirit form. So imagine another being that has being a spirit for more time and had other kind of powers before.

I'm not sure if I understood this right. So a spirit form is a different thing than a spirit?

Lionox wrote: For me, a form of "Hell" would be something Alex mentioned on the forum a while ago about what happens to the souls of those who commit suicide: The soul remains bound to the physical body until approximately the time of natural death would have occured. That can be a very long time period and during that time, one sees their body decompose and break down, but still there is no escape. In leaving this earthly plane, you would be easy prey for anything out there on the astral and as a suicide you would be totally defenseless.

This is a bit personal thing, but I don't believe (or don't want to believe) everyone who commits suicide ends up to hell. Some are really kind and compassionate people, with extremely tragic lives they couldn't handle anymore. I hope their souls find healing eventually. But that's just a personal opinion and a bit touchy subject because someone I once liked killed himself. Maybe they hang around Earthbound until the time of their natural death. For me that's not how I understand Hell, but it's still an extremely sad fate, especially if they're tormented by other spirits and entities.

Killarican wrote: The primary idealogy with spirit interaction though is to keep in mind it's believed Spirits and Souls are not the same.

This is a really, really good point! To be honest I completely forgot that spirit is a different thing than a soul. :facepalm::

Killarican wrote:You dont "leave" your body at all. That's a Misconception created by the impressions of people that think "Out of Body". You travel "within". The entirety of your consciousness experiences a Dissociative state where it feels like a Waking lucid dream. We still have ties, so whether we explore or stay grounded, the "spirits" still show us what they want to show us. It's nothing more than "data" being transferred from "realms" beyond through our brain.

Thanks for mentioning this! I had never thought about it like this. I had wondered sometimes why during OBEs the furniture is in different places etc. :lol: It's not completely like "reality".

bryan wrote:SPIRITS can't be harmed or killed. Entities? YES THEY CAN.

I know entities can be hurt. But for spirits I wondered about the Hell thing because those are dead people in there (if you believe Hell exists). Of course they're not killed there (because they're already dead), but still tormented. But like I explained to Killarican I completely forgot that spirit is a different thing from a soul. So that might explain at least some of my confusion. (It's still confusing though :lol: )

ok guys, pls forgive me ,but after reading up to here, some weird thoughts pop up in my head..
..
So..if spirits can't be hurt or killed, but entities can.. then, say one of my entities gets killed (not that I'm aware of, but let's just assume) then it becomes a spirit, which can't be killed anymore, since it's already dead. right?
so, in the end it comes down to .... no tragedy ,if any of my entities ever get killed, since they only chance to being spirits, and then all is well ??
Maybe I'm having a blond moment, but if that is true, then why ever worry for the safety of my entities? They end up being spirits, un-harm-able (?)..I might have lost an entity, but got a spirit instead..-hmmm...sounds logical to me..but doesn't feel right..- so where's the mistake in my thinking? IS this a wrong assumption?
Would really like to get other peeps opinion on this.. -and no offense taken, please..
It's just a trail of thoughts that marched through my (tired) mind.

I can only speak through my experience of research and anecdotes of those close to me. Yes entitys can be killed off by other astral beings, matter of fact a spiritually sensitive friend of mine believed her "Guide" got killed off by a Dark faery like entity, and it phased her dramatically. She felt it. She still communicates with him but she has trouble communicating with him on the same level she did when he was alive.

ooh ,thanks killa, that's interesting, and makes sense.
-never thought of the comunication factor..- bad mistake.
:facepalm::