I couldn't imagine forcing anything to be bound against its will. It sounds really traumatic both for the spirit and for the conjurer. And at least it isn't all that common...or at least it truly isn't done by many. If I were forcibly bound against my will, I know I wouldn't be pleased.

Because I saw the shackles? or is that not proof anymore?

Shackles are a human visual. Living entities who are bound against their will present with a different visual to the practitioner who sees them. In all cases it is Black Arts to deny something the right of free will & to forcibly bind them to something. Here are a few examples of what visual manifestation looks like when a practitioner views:

Auret Cofilir BA binding: manifestation with grey-blue hue around physical vessel when seen by psychic/third eye
Dabranar Sukain Taberin Lysande BA binding: indistinguishable matter clotted around the 4th degree with static presence

Those are two examples out of the many known to us in forcible BA bindings.

I've seen an ad about spirits needing to grant a certain number of wish to win their freedom. That sort of sounds like they are bound against their will.

What would be the point? Spirits agree to be bound, not to earn the freedom they already had. A living entity, however, that is bound against its will may be given the capability of leaving the binding if certain tasks are performed, like slavery.

Okay...let me get this straight. You didn't see this yourself. This was all done through a third party?? Who told you that your Khodam had shakles, was tricked, etc. etc.??

Wow...okay...I don't event think I can LIST the number of posts here where Magnolia states that this is never a good idea. Never have someone else connect to or speak to your spirits.

Who was this person? What are their credential? What is their background? How long have they been doing said "linkage" and communication? What techniques do they use?

Reference Untaimed's post. This happens. It's really unfortunate. You should be 100% damn sure who you are dealing with. Because 99% of the time, your spirits are NOT going to talk to a third party. Even with spirits we bind, if we have to contact them for re-binding, we ask their permission to speak with them, and usually for something important, like re-binding, they will answer, but to contact them for any other reason, they aren't going to. They aren't with you to speak to someone else, and they are powerful enough to find ways to communicate with you no matter how deaf/blind you are. They don't want someone else meddling. and to complicate matters by having someone who may or may not even possess the capability to speak to them in a proper manner only makes matters worse; especially when someone is speaking for them & not even getting it right! That will truly complicate issues & frustrate the spirits who are being spoken for who aren't even saying what the person is telling you.

I can sense my own spirits yes and they are gone. However they do come up to check on me every now and again.

You have to know how something is bound to unbind it. If you don't know, then you cannot release it from the binding, you can only remove it from yourself.

I just wanted to post my opinion on whether spirits can be forcibly bound. Speaking of living entities, occult history says that they can, and they are, and this is a frequent practice by those with a level of mastery. This was done by King Solomon when he bound 72 entities into a vessel - you can bet they did not want to be mastered and dominated and bound. Binding such living entities is a way to control them. I don't know that much about old traditions of binding djinn, but the stories would seem to suggest that those traditions area also about binding djinn in order to master them. And that's why you get old folklore about angry and evil genies, manipulating wishes and so on. There is truth to those stories. Some traditions are very much about mastering dark and powerful entities. Binding them is one such way to do this.

But if the question is only about spirits, then my answer wouldn't apply.

Living entities & spirits are two different things. I've posted many times to caution people to know if what they are talking about is a living entity, or a spirit. I know some sellers sell bindings of living entities in the DA & BA, as well as spirits. You should be fully & totally conscious of what you have in your keep.

I have no problem admitting that I was one of the people that was scammed in the last go round of 'spirit communication'. She was a very popular member, had great feedback & seemed very genuine & well respected. Little did I know.... Not only did I lose damn near $70 for her to 'speak' to my spirit companions, I had to deal with some pretty major heartache too. I was told that all of my Dragons were fighting amongst themselves, jealous of each other & that they weren't happy with the offering I was giving them. Hmmm, ok, but if they aren't happy with diamonds, gemstones & jewelry, what the heck do they want? That was something for me to think about, but what 'got' me was when she said that my most beloved companion 'L' wasn't happy with me & wanted to live with my sister. When I brought up the point that I'm an only child so no sister, she decided that it was a close girl friend. Ummm, no, I didn't have any close girl friends at that time. Ok he's just unhappy & wants to go, so I should look for a girl I'm close to, that's who he wants to be with. She also 'talked' to my husband who at that time had just recently passed. It was a very traumatic time in my & my childrens lives & the things she said in no way brought me comfort. By the end of the 'reading' I was a mess. I thought on all that I'd 'learned' for a few days, but it ALL felt so wrong, it made me sick to my stomach. Whenever I would think about 'L' leaving me I wanted to throw up, I knew it was wrong, I just knew it. My problem is that I was a newer member to the forum & I didn't want to question a member who had been here much longer than I, who had so many 'forum buddies' that I suffered in silence until I just couldn't take it any more & I reached out to two amazing Elders of the forum & asked for their help & impressions. Thank the gods I did & they helped me to confirm for myself that it was all a scam. I was unable to communicate with my companions for myself at that time & was unsure of myself as a keeper & let myself walk right into that. It was a very, very valuable lesson for me to go with my gut. I KNOW BEST what my spirits think, no one else. So now if I get info from anyone else about MY companions, I take what they've told me & I ASK my companions myself. I've gotten some good info from popular members on my companions, but I've also gotten lots of wrong info on them & if I blindly believed what I was told, it would only serve to hurt me & my companions. All I can tell anyone else about letting others talk to your spirits, is that it's so vitally important for you to know how to communicate for yourself, to verify what you've been told.

This is the way it happens. It's a member everyone likes, is nice to everyone, gets everyone feeling cozy, and people are afraid to speak up. And, they do the "Don't tell anyone" business to make you feel that if you do speak out that you'll be betraying or ridiculing them. It's disturbing, but that is why I've posted so many times about it. I've seen members go from being clueless to a year later being an expert & having their own business. In this case it was a greatly effecting case because she was well-liked by many and she was trusted. It happens, and I can't tell you why, maybe greed, ego, power, I don't know. But, if something doesn't feel right, then you need to ask more questions. And if it contradicts everything you know to be true in the Spirit Keeping world, then definitely ask more questions. Advocate for yourself & get the right information. Otherwise, you might be one of the victims robbed of their journey.

I couldn't imagine forcing anything to be bound against its will. It sounds really traumatic both for the spirit and for the conjurer. And at least it isn't all that common...or at least it truly isn't done by many. If I were forcibly bound against my will, I know I wouldn't be pleased.

It isn't pleasant, and that is why they are all BA.

thanks for the direction magnolia! i think this might also help with members worrying that our spirit friends can just up and leave permanently; whether any other person can take our spirits, etc. thanks again for the knowledge you and ash share so freely so that everyone here can learn and be on the same sort of page somewhat. :grouphug:

Thank you very much magnolia!

THANK YOU, Magnolia!!! :thumbup:

Thanks magnolia :dancing:

Thank you Magnolia...I didn't see you had posted in this thread until now. It helps greatly to hear the word straight from "the master's" mouth.

crone wrote: i think this might also help with members worrying that our spirit friends can just up and leave permanently; whether any other person can take our spirits, etc.

Does it? I must of misssed that.

crone wrote:why, because they can leave us for a time if they feel the desire.

This is what I know about certain spirit. I think these two statements may confuse the reader. Can you clarify? Who can leave? Spirit or Living Spirit.

On the topic of living and spirit entities one being more troublesome than the other, I get conflicting information. CH says it's binding is for "spirit" djinns and would never bind "living" entities unless it's a special circumstance. Lisa says she binds "living" djinns because "spirit" djinn or other spirits are those that have passed on. She doesn't usually come in contact with those types of spirits and does not bind them unless it's a special circumstance.

LOL.

It might be an issue with symantics but I am confused. ? Both djinns from both practioners have touched me. Is there an energtic difference? Or is it actually different ways of explaining the same thing? Which one if any can chose to leave me? Which would be dangerous if released? Would the living entity be likely to be forced. If so the ad about the djinn having to grant wishes to be release sounds dangerous...though I'm sure it was a made up story....(that was my point of bringing up the ad, for others to think about the stuff that is written)..

This is what I know about certain spirit. I think these two statements may confuse the reader. Can you clarify? Who can leave? Spirit or Living Spirit.

Depends entirely on the binding. If it's just an attachment then either can leave. If it's semi-permanent then they might be able to leave depending on the conditions. It all entirely circles around the methodology of the practitioner.

On the topic of living and spirit entities one being more troublesome than the other, I get conflicting information. CH says it's binding is for "spirit" djinns and would never bind "living" entities unless it's a special circumstance. Lisa says she binds "living" djinns because "spirit" djinn or other spirits are those that have passed on. She doesn't usually come in contact with those types of spirits and does not bind them unless it's a special circumstance.

Hm, interesting. We don't bind living entities, except under few circumstances, because they are alive. They have lives to live in their lifetime & I wouldn't want to deprive any living being of that. Let them live their lives, and if they want to visit you, they can do so as living beings any time they want. After they've lived their life they become a spirit and can choose to assist humans, or other entities, or do whatever it is they choose. But, why would you want to deal with a living being? There are thousands of spirits to commune with, far more spirits than there are living beings as the spirits of those who have died span millions of years, whereas there are limited numbers of living beings of any species at any time. So the theory that living beings are more easily contacted than spirits doesn't make sense. You have billions of spirits spanning millions of years in 3 realms.


I

t might be an issue with symantics but I am confused. ? Both djinns from both practioners have touched me. Is there an energtic difference?

There is definitely a difference in energy, behavior, and interaction. DAs have the choice of right or wrong, a living DA entity not only has the choice, but doesn't have the same limitations as spirits do, and being still in living form can cause actual, physical actions.

Or is it actually different ways of explaining the same thing?

It may be, I'm not familiar with other practitioner's work.

Which one if any can chose to leave me?

CH bindings are the only ones I can speak, for and while spirits can return to their respective realm(s), our bindings are permanent and they can't vacate it without unbinding.

Which would be dangerous if released?

They would only be dangerous if they were dangerous to begin with, or if they were forcibly bound beyond their will & by releasing them, they want vengeance.

Would the living entity be likely to be forced. If so the ad about the djinn having to grant wishes to be release sounds dangerous...though I'm sure it was a made up story....(that was my point of bringing up the ad, for others to think about the stuff that is written)..

It's hard to say because it would depend both on the entity and the method of binding. I would say a 3 wishes & then released binding sounds a lot like the arabic tales, and in those cases the genies were slaves bound against their will. That however, is merely a comparison, and validation from the seller would need to be obtained.

angeldust, i think you might have misunderstood me. i meant our spirit friends in their vessels are not caught in that vessel; they're not trapped within it but rather the vessel is like a human's home - we live there; we rest there; but we are free to come and go - when our spirits are needed they come straight back to us. spirits also simply just can't be "released" with a few words by a keeper when the practitioner has gone through an exacting ritual of binding. in order for the spirit to be released permanently the keeper would have to know how the practitioner bound the spirit in the first place and you're just not going to be privy to that information.

as for what i said about any potential worry that our spirits can be taken by another - magnolia has posted on that here before and the answer is simply that it can't happen. i'm sorry there seemed to be misunderstanding and sometimes i speak as if everyone knows what i'm talking about since there are so many new members who are conjuring who would be able to provide the same sort of advice.

bottom line is read magnolia's threads that really should be stickied as mandatory reading for spirit keepers and be assured that our spirit friends don't leave us and that they are around us whether we can see, sense or feel them. enjoy!