Now that you mention it, that is a great point, Chelly. I'm not familiar with it either, but I suppose if I ever find myself in a similar situation in the future, it would be useful to know whether or not it it possible or advisable to use a capture stone in that way. Good question :thumbup:

Capturing and binding are two very different things.

Bumping some threads :thumbup:

I doubt it would be advisable to use a capture stone that way. Capturing a malicious unbound and transferring them into another vessel without any of the usual precautions put in place during a normal binding sounds like a hell of a bad idea to me. Nothing about obeying house rules. Nothing about not killing. No precautions against harming their keeper... Yeah that sounds fun to have around.

And I agree that no one can claim a spirit was forcibly bound using white arts. By definition doing something against another's will is NOT white arts. However I don't see why someone practicing black magic who was capable of binding a black arts spirit or entity couldn't also forcibly bind a white or dark arts spirit/entity. Is it advised? Is it nice? Absolutely not. However, it's seriously disturbing that people are so against it being possible. The actual process of binding a spirit unwillingly (like controlling someone's mind, forcing another human to do what you want, fall in love with you, ect) is black arts, but I don't think it's impossible for someone who's binding BA entities to go, hmmm I could totally trap these unicorns and force them to obey and sell them (using unicorns as an example here...). If they can be captured and stuck inside a capture stone, I see absolutely no reason why they can't be thusly bound (stuck) inside a suitable vessel by someone with enough skill. Humans can be just as strong as other entities with enough (likely a lifetime of) practice. There are practitioners who don't spirit keep, use tools, spells, or anything but their own energy and achieve the same results as those who do. We are not as weak as we think.

bump

The more learned and practiced may refute this. And as stated, the black arts are just that. Any spirit or entity may be bound against its will. Just as any of us can be taken or forced to do something against our will. The repercussions in both instances are grave, to be sure.

It has much to do with the true, full name... at least as I understand it. We humans are often weak in comparison to all that we share existence with. But no matter how devious or manipulative any demon from the blackest abyss may be, never forget... humans are the master of deception.

That being said, I am avidly against this. Strongly advise against this. And feel that any person who does this deserves what they get.

There should be a thread in true names somewheres

InfernalNachos wrote:But no matter how devious or manipulative any demon from the blackest abyss may be, never forget... humans are the master of deception.

Mmmh be careful about this. As skillful in deception a human is, remember that it is against beings who have hundreds or thousand of years worth of experience. And that deception skill is not possessed by all humans equally, so those beings can always take revenge by targeting friends and families.

darkwing dook wrote:

InfernalNachos wrote:But no matter how devious or manipulative any demon from the blackest abyss may be, never forget... humans are the master of deception.

Mmmh be careful about this. As skillful in deception a human is, remember that it is against beings who have hundreds or thousand of years worth of experience. And that deception skill is not possessed by all humans equally, so those beings can always take revenge by targeting friends and families.

Whoa whoa whoa... not something I'd ever consider trying. Not something I would suggest someone else do either. Mainly because if it can be forcibly bound, it can break free. And I would hate to be on the receiving end of that kind of ire.

And since I've seen your screen name, been randomly singing the theme song while making my daughters' lunches... let's. Get. Dangerous

InfernalNachos wrote: And since I've seen your screen name, been randomly singing the theme song while making my daughters' lunches... let's. Get. Dangerous

Heheh : p
When the duck is outgunned, overpowered, etc, he knows it's dangerous, so he gets dangerous. I.e. recognize and acknowledge the risks and consequences before leaping.

An example of BA practitioner of one tradition:
topic72666.html

Phenomenal read, DW. Is difficult to find certain things and I'm still digging to prevent double, triple, and spam posts.

Hammer meet nail. Kind of why BA isn't for me. But before this gets way off topic, ima go find another thread

Thanks again