On any given day, no. Spirits are capable of holding their own against something trying to exact a malicious action against them. Binding is something that can only take place with permission; without permission the action cannot be performed. A spirit is not a vulnerable weakling incapable of taking action to ensure their own safety & freedom. Permission is even required when a vessel is lost and a spirit needs to be transmuted to a new vessel, without it a practitioner cannot take action to move or re-home a spirit.

Can forcible binding happen ever? Yes, but you only see this in black magic practitioners who are summoning & conjuring Black Arts spirits or entities whose intentions as a whole are malicious. The majority of the people in the world do not hold the capability to force a superior being against its will. You typically only see this in black magick practitioners doing so against other Black Arts spirits to force them to do their bidding because Black Arts spirits as a rule will not voluntarily help you. However, it should also be noted that in this case the word "spirit" is inaccurate because most of the time the Black Arts "spirits" bound against their will are living entities who reside on another plane such as the astral or spiritual. And BA practitioners always pay in the end and you don't usually see their run last longer than a few months or a year before something breaks them down if they are going with the forcible approach. BA entities have powers beyond any scope of a human and typically a BA practitioner will allow themselves to become possessed by a strong BA spirit in order to continue BA work. The number of these kinds of practitioners are very few and far between.

I agree.
I have seen the end of such practitioners. They die painfully. Get many diseases. No doctor is able to cure them. Most the times, medical science is even not able to find out what is making them sick. I've seen many such examples in real life.

Thanks.

creepyhollows wrote:On any given day, no. Spirits are capable of holding their own against something trying to exact a malicious action against them. Binding is something that can only take place with permission; without permission the action cannot be performed. A spirit is not a vulnerable weakling incapable of taking action to ensure their own safety & freedom. Permission is even required when a vessel is lost and a spirit needs to be transmuted to a new vessel, without it a practitioner cannot take action to move or re-home a spirit.

Can forcible binding happen ever? Yes, but you only see this in black magic practitioners who are summoning & conjuring Black Arts spirits or entities whose intentions as a whole are malicious. The majority of the people in the world do not hold the capability to force a superior being against its will. You typically only see this in black magick practitioners doing so against other Black Arts spirits to force them to do their bidding because Black Arts spirits as a rule will not voluntarily help you. However, it should also be noted that in this case the word "spirit" is inaccurate because most of the time the Black Arts "spirits" bound against their will are living entities who reside on another plane such as the astral or spiritual. And BA practitioners always pay in the end and you don't usually see their run last longer than a few months or a year before something breaks them down if they are going with the forcible approach. BA entities have powers beyond any scope of a human and typically a BA practitioner will allow themselves to become possessed by a strong BA spirit in order to continue BA work. The number of these kinds of practitioners are very few and far between.

Coming from a place where 90% magick practiced here is BA this is not surprising for me, i've seen how they deal really bad because of it, what surprising me is there is white magick before :lol:

to be honest one of my grandma ( not blood related ) is practicing BA, i've witnessing how scary it is and believe me you don't want to deal with it

I thought all magick practiced are bad (well we learn through sample), and thx for CH who providing good literature through forum and encyclopedia, it open my eyes that it is not always that bad and now i am having a dragon that i am sure helping me a lot since i welcomed him

ps: magnolia you are sending me male dragon right, how come my grandma seeing i am having a woman companion? even she talked to this spirit and asking what is her purpose following me? and my grandma said i am having a very good and protective spirit but very arrogant on her personality

BUMPING

If a WA or DA spirit cannot be forcibly bound. Can they be "tricked" into being bound?

Ellegria* wrote:If a WA or DA spirit cannot be forcibly bound. Can they be "tricked" into being bound?

I am continuing the discussion from another thread as it is a seller review thread.

Mogma:: One thing I have heard from Huff (dunno what his forum name is just what I call him on chat) is he had received an entity (Khodams I think) from this seller that was bound against its will and thus separated from its family, who have also been bound and separated. Bryan also had two Khodams that were bound against their will by the same seller.

Ellegria:: I want to caution against relaying such notions that so many spirits here were "bound against their will." And I refer to this post in the forum by Magnolia.

Mogma:: Read the second paragraph. Yes, it can happen, HOWEVER I am NOT accusing bythepowerof3 of using BA or DA to bind spirits. I am repeating information given to me by first hand accounts that people might be interested in given their experiences with the seller.<...> Read the second paragraph. Yes, it can happen, HOWEVER I am NOT accusing bythepowerof3 of using BA or DA to bind spirits. I am repeating information given to me by first hand accounts that people might be interested in given their experiences with the seller. This is what I was told from the people themselves from their purchases and their experiences with their spirits. Neither party I got the information from have anything to gain by lying.

Noc:: They do not have to be "lying", they could certainly be wrong or misguided about the situation however. What Ellegria pointed out doesn't have to insist they are lying. The point is to be cautious, reasonable, and keep this knowledge in mind.
If it is what they claim from their experience, that is fair enough to state. To argue if they are right or wrong about it is not the point. The idea here is to remind everyone what is known by those experienced and that what you mention of their experience does not necessarily reflect what is common, and so perhaps allow those more impressionable to realise other sides to this idea, encourage a little critical thinking. It just is what it is.

Furthermore, I am pretty sure she wasn't trying to emphasize the idea that this could be damaging to the seller's reputation and one should try to avoid that, by referring to the thread she brought up. The way I see it, it could perhaps end up somewhat problematic to members reading or the progress of this thread due to what I noted above (and what Ellegria clarified), and yeah.. as a result could damage the seller's rep, but the focus anyway was meant to be on the point itself.
I felt like contributing here to bring some clarification to this, as I agreed with Ellegria referring people to that information upon reading your post myself. Doesn't need to have a fuss made over it, people just need to be aware, it doesn't hurt to throw in a reminder.

Bryan:: For the record my khodams were tricked. unfortunately I had to release them. I did what I had to do to keep my spirit family happy and healthy. I just want people to be weary of this seller.

Ellegria:: But for the sake of accuracy and knowledge, and for the sake of anyone reading your words who may be new or confused, I refer you back to Noc's post where she asked that all of you re-think the situation with reason, taking into consideration what Magnolia posted on her thread.

"Being tricked" by its very nature is a form of being bound without permission. And Magnolia clearly states that this is not happening with a non-BA spirit or a non-BA practitioner. Is it possible? I suppose everything in the universe might be possible in some way or another. But is it likely? Is it probable that one conjurer was powerful enough to trick an entire family of khodams into being bound without their consent?

I might want to ask how you came to the conclusion that the spirits were bound in this way and why the information was first that they were forcibly bound and now tricked into being bound. But again...I don't want this thread to drift away from its intended purpose. So I will withhold my question.

Ellegria* wrote:

Ellegria* wrote:If a WA or DA spirit cannot be forcibly bound. Can they be "tricked" into being bound?

I am continuing the discussion from another thread as it is a seller review thread.

Mogma:: One thing I have heard from Huff (dunno what his forum name is just what I call him on chat) is he had received an entity (Khodams I think) from this seller that was bound against its will and thus separated from its family, who have also been bound and separated. Bryan also had two Khodams that were bound against their will by the same seller.

Ellegria:: I want to caution against relaying such notions that so many spirits here were "bound against their will." And I refer to this post in the forum by Magnolia.

Mogma:: Read the second paragraph. Yes, it can happen, HOWEVER I am NOT accusing bythepowerof3 of using BA or DA to bind spirits. I am repeating information given to me by first hand accounts that people might be interested in given their experiences with the seller.<...> Read the second paragraph. Yes, it can happen, HOWEVER I am NOT accusing bythepowerof3 of using BA or DA to bind spirits. I am repeating information given to me by first hand accounts that people might be interested in given their experiences with the seller. This is what I was told from the people themselves from their purchases and their experiences with their spirits. Neither party I got the information from have anything to gain by lying.

Noc:: They do not have to be "lying", they could certainly be wrong or misguided about the situation however. What Ellegria pointed out doesn't have to insist they are lying. The point is to be cautious, reasonable, and keep this knowledge in mind.
If it is what they claim from their experience, that is fair enough to state. To argue if they are right or wrong about it is not the point. The idea here is to remind everyone what is known by those experienced and that what you mention of their experience does not necessarily reflect what is common, and so perhaps allow those more impressionable to realise other sides to this idea, encourage a little critical thinking. It just is what it is.

Furthermore, I am pretty sure she wasn't trying to emphasize the idea that this could be damaging to the seller's reputation and one should try to avoid that, by referring to the thread she brought up. The way I see it, it could perhaps end up somewhat problematic to members reading or the progress of this thread due to what I noted above (and what Ellegria clarified), and yeah.. as a result could damage the seller's rep, but the focus anyway was meant to be on the point itself.
I felt like contributing here to bring some clarification to this, as I agreed with Ellegria referring people to that information upon reading your post myself. Doesn't need to have a fuss made over it, people just need to be aware, it doesn't hurt to throw in a reminder.

Bryan:: For the record my khodams were tricked. unfortunately I had to release them. I did what I had to do to keep my spirit family happy and healthy. I just want people to be weary of this seller.

Ellegria:: But for the sake of accuracy and knowledge, and for the sake of anyone reading your words who may be new or confused, I refer you back to Noc's post where she asked that all of you re-think the situation with reason, taking into consideration what Magnolia posted on her thread.

"Being tricked" by its very nature is a form of being bound without permission. And Magnolia clearly states that this is not happening with a non-BA spirit or a non-BA practitioner. Is it possible? I suppose everything in the universe might be possible in some way or another. But is it likely? Is it probable that one conjurer was powerful enough to trick an entire family of khodams into being bound without their consent?

I might want to ask how you came to the conclusion that the spirits were bound in this way and why the information was first that they were forcibly bound and now tricked into being bound. But again...I don't want this thread to drift away from its intended purpose. So I will withhold my question.

Because I saw the shackles? or is that not proof anymore?

bryan wrote:Because I saw the shackles? or is that not proof anymore?

I'm NOT discounting what you saw. I am asking for clarification if this is possible from someone or others who have a great deal more experience with this than you or I. That is all. What harm is there in getting information and clarification???

Ellegria* wrote:

bryan wrote:Because I saw the shackles? or is that not proof anymore?

I'm NOT discounting what you saw. I am asking for clarification if this is possible from someone or others who have a great deal more experience with this than you or I. That is all. What harm is there in getting information and clarification???

Then that's all that matters. And there is no harm in getting clarification.

shackles?
I have never heard of spirits being shackled. That sounds really far fetched to me.