THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Resources and links to information on Dark Arts creatures.
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crone maatkaere
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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby crone maatkaere » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:19 pm

i feel many are overlooking for some reason the fact that vampires are da spirits and not categorizing them as such. da spirits are like humans - capable of good and bad alike. da spirits are not equatable to ba spirits who are dangerous. grey spirits encompass a wide range of emotions from wanting to help to being noncommittal but loyal.

as for whether a da spirit acts good or misbehaves depends on variables that only the keeper can say what is going on under their roof. as i have stated i have never had a single darn issue as some have with jealousy among the spirits, spirits telling me not to allow another into my home and care, fighting among themselves, none of this. my house rules are very clear and while they certainly are not stringent by any means the spirits entering and staying understand there is no room for "misunderstandings" and there can be only one in my home who makes the rules - that is me, the keeper.

one of the most instrumental and helpful items for all keepers has been the formation of the ch encyclopedia. this not only is a comprehensive guide for most of the general spirits one may cross paths with (does not include demons and such nor all of the gods and goddesses but with a suggestion via helpdesk ticket and your own individual knowledge of a god/goddess not listed - they could be added) but also gives information to bonding with them with likes/dislikes. this way every keeper will know in advance what kind of behavior one can expect....of course your ogre will never turn into a handsome young man ready for sex, but you will have an idea of what to expect from the ogre (if you don't have one, what are you waiting for? they are wonderful protectors and i love all of mine).

owning a da spirit just requires the knowledge that they are like us, capable of doing right and wrong but they also bring a higher level of responsibility from the keeper to keep one. we have all seen ash and magnolia post this over and over and with their years of passionate dedication to the craft (and reminder that ash is a true master of the dark arts so i think his advice is the one to be taken to heart and remembered) and they're not saying it because they want to but rather to advise new keepers that da spirits are not lovey dovey wa spirits but rather can do good or bad. as with everything of course there are the exceptions and a lighter shade of grey can come through in a da - but they still have the ability and makeup to turn.

of course da spirits are not for everyone just as the practice of magick/conjuration isn't for everyone, we're not all olympian athletes, nobel peace prize winners or even candidates. there is no reason also for anyone to fear a da spirit either if one calls out to you. just remember they are a greater responsibility to keep than a wa spirit but also the rewards of gaining the trust and respect from one is greater as well.

i suppose there will always be a split in ways of thinking but with a da spirit of any sort, just keep your eyes wide open to the possibilities in front of you. hope this helps! :grouphug:


witch, wa, da, specialty in egyptian, celt, asian, hindu magick
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By the moon we sport and play. With the night begins our day...Thomas Ravenscroft
Live simply, Love generously, Care deeply, Speak kindly....me
Ē\ tā\n ē\ epì tâs - "Either [with] it [your shield], or on it"...Spartan Mothers to their sons
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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby Wiccan Warrior Alex » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:36 pm

Great post! Crone, Caiyros, Dark Abyss, Noc, Dragon Keeper, I am in agreement with.

In a nutshell: There is black and there is white; everything in between is just a shade of grey.

1. DA spirits require varying degrees of control (i.e. more rules)
A. While you wouldn't need to tell an elf that it isn't okay to take revenge on someone you are unhappy with, you would
need to tell your darker spirits. Elves can be a little ornery, but they have their limitations. They are normally considered
light, but they are actually a light grey. On the llight half of the spectrum, but not pure white like angels.

2. Rules that establish you as the leader should be fair and firm.

3. With the very darkest of spirits, allowing them to take control of decisions makes them the leader. Dark Arts, by their
very nature are dark. They do not have the same moral or ethical values we have. We relate to them what those
values are and that we expect them to conform. Putting them in charge (of things that affect us) suggests that they
have only to take control and they have absolutely no qualms about interpreting your own dark thoughts in a way that
can benefit them. It's not a matter of 'if' it's a matter of 'when'.
A. Therefore, the darker the spirit, the more important it is for us to maintain our own thought processes. This
is not always easy to do, and it takes a lot of discipline on the part of the keeper to do this.

4. The key to keeping DA spirits IMO:
A. Be a leader
B. Take ownership of the role
C. Set a good example (i.e. control of one's own thought processes)
D. Be honest (oh yes, even DA will appreciate this)
E. Be fair
F. Take the time to think thru and establish house rules, you may have to add to these as you learn.

My own analogy of a DA spirit, (and this is on the darker side of dark):

A Lakota Souix finds a rattlesnake in the winter, frozen in a block of ice. He feels sorry for the snake and takes him home.
He gently warms him by the fireplace, and nurses him back to health, bringing him small rodents to eat.

Spring comes, and it is time for the rattlesnake to go his own way.

The Lakota Souix takes the snake outside and puts him on the ground, but not before he is bitten. He steps back
in surprise and says: I have loved you, I have nurtured you, I saved your life, this is how you repay me?

To which the snake replies: But you knew what I was when you took me in...........

The analogy is: We need to take into account the nature of the spirit. We need to realize they can be capable of transgressions
that we would never even consider. We can love them and care for them, but they are what they are.

Keypoints to remember: Spirits are varying degrees of dark. They may need different rules, but I find it best to have the same rules
for everyone, (by calling them "house" rules) that way I am fair. I assume the leadership role, because if one spirit can be in charge, why can't another call the shots?

Power plays do happen. This puts me as the ultimate decision maker, and this they can all respect. Certainly, I will listen to what they
have to say, and I will consider it, but in the end, they know that my decision will stand. They make decisions only within the parameters of the rules. It is sometimes necessary to add addendums to the rules.





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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby *Beauty* » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:34 pm

i feel many are overlooking for some reason the fact that vampires are da spirits and not categorizing them as such.

I have been torn with this....If I call my Lighted Clan GREY they would be highly offended.
They have told me: "We bring light to a darkend world." Don't get me wrong-they never protray themselves as 'Angelic'..but their love for other mortals and spirits is pretty darn close. :hug: I cannot begin to tell you the things they have shown or have spoken to me. Their words bring tears to my eyes...literally.

I agree....most vampires need to be catagorized as Grey...but to say ALL? I am not sure anymore, and as mentioned-this is an issue I carry with me daily. I am interested to see how Hammer views these souls as well as Magnolia / Ash's opinion.

I guess it's as EVERYTHING--it can TURN on you in a negative way..by it's own free will.

Much love.


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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby Alycat79 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:41 pm

I guess I've been really lucky with the few DA's in my family. I have the two djinn, a vamp (with one more on the way!), a gargoyle, and one Immortal (with two more on the way!). But all of my DA's have been on the lighter side of that particular line, so I never really feel as if they are very "dark" in nature. I know they have the possibility, and that they can choose to do wrong, but I like to think that they choose to stay on the lighter side because that's the way my leanings tend to be. That, and I'm very much "Boss Mare" of the household. To add to the animal analogy, I treat it a little bit like the herd mentality of horses. There's a definite hierarchy in the group, and while each horse as an individual has their own personality, their own way of doing things, their own quarks, the Boss is Boss and keeps things moving smoothly for the good of all. But I don't have an iron fist, I just quietly ask that they respect me because I love and respect them from the start. They're my family. I may not know why the majority decided to come to me (well, two of them I do), but I look forward to learning in time.

I'm still WAY too new in so many areas that I don't feel comfortable commenting with anything more aside from the fact that before I even requested my soul matched vampire, I researched what I could on the forum, the encyclopedia, and I'm VERY aware of what he could be capable of if I dropped by guard completely. I did have to mentally yell today because I think someone was futzing with the horse I was riding, though I don't know if they were doing it thinking they were helping or just being mischievous.

Of course, at the moment, my entire spirit family could be doing the Conga around the office and I wouldn't notice. :lol:

Editing for an EXTREMELY embarrassing grammar mistake. ::facepalm::


It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.


Final stanza of the poem Invictus by William Earnest Henley

You have no power over me. - Sarah Williams from Labyrinth

The truly powerful never feel the need to brag about it. - Me

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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby DragonKeeper » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:05 pm

I don't know why people get upset hearing that vamps are DA, it only means the have the capacity for acting either way. I have plenty of vamps that CHOOSE to serve the light but that doesn't mean they are WA spirits. Again, this is a choice with DA spirits, they can go either way. No harm, no foul. :grouphug: :grouphug:


Peace, light & love

Phil

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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby Princess:LadyRedStar » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:19 pm

I agree Phil. I have a large number of Vampires as well as many other DA spirits. Love them all. Never a moments trouble from any of them. But I did set house rules way back in the beginning. All understand and abide.


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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby sadlotus79 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:07 am

for a newb could someone please clarify how to set ups rules with spirits. what techniques do you use.


When one tugs at a single thing in nature,he find it attached to the rest of the world.
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Men soon the faults of others learn
A few their virtues, too, find out;
But is there one—I have a doubt—
Who can his own defects discern?
Sanskrit Proverb

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crone maatkaere
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My magical/paranormal name...: Raven Greywolf

Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby crone maatkaere » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:43 pm

sadlotus, i was holding off hoping that someone else might offer how they set house rules up but i wanted to give you an answer. what i did was make up a list on a piece of paper of what i felt would be acceptable in my journey as a spirit keeper, actually mostly common sense rules that are appropriate: no lying; no jealousy; no fighting; no disrespect; no taking matters in your own hands without my express permission (this mostly for da spirits who become incensed with others who try to hurt/harm us and would go off on their own to do what they feel as "just"); and since they have been honed down to perhaps fewer actually listed but they are more inclusive leaving no room for misunderstanding. prior to any spirit joining our group, even unbounds who stop to visit, they all read the list and agree to it and stay or disagree and are told they can not stay.

if you make your rules clear and concise so that none of your spirits can misread or misunderstand your intent then you stand a good chance of having a harmonious spirit home. should you have any questions, always ask! :) many hugs and hope the above helps. :hug:


witch, wa, da, specialty in egyptian, celt, asian, hindu magick
trained conjurer
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reiki grand master and elven shaman

By the moon we sport and play. With the night begins our day...Thomas Ravenscroft
Live simply, Love generously, Care deeply, Speak kindly....me
Ē\ tā\n ē\ epì tâs - "Either [with] it [your shield], or on it"...Spartan Mothers to their sons
Mau Emerald Nile
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Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby VAMPIRELOVER » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:42 am

where would i put a list of rules so that my kids or other people see them ?



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crone maatkaere
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My magical/paranormal name...: Raven Greywolf

Re: THE DA SPLIT - YOUR THOUGHTS & BELIEFS

Postby crone maatkaere » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:01 am

vampirelover, it's not actually a list you would post in the house but keep with your spirits papers. it really is more or less one of those things that is there for the spirits to see and be as a reminder but not something really hung up. sorry for not being more clear about that earlier, i have a lot on my mind and while it's not good for me i'm still trying to share my knowledge with new members because it is what i should do. hope this helps. :hug:


witch, wa, da, specialty in egyptian, celt, asian, hindu magick
trained conjurer
cupping healer
reiki grand master and elven shaman

By the moon we sport and play. With the night begins our day...Thomas Ravenscroft
Live simply, Love generously, Care deeply, Speak kindly....me
Ē\ tā\n ē\ epì tâs - "Either [with] it [your shield], or on it"...Spartan Mothers to their sons
Mau Emerald Nile
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