Vipera aspis atra wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:13 am
Little fairy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 3:45 pm
I’m very confused here. I understand the first post Ash said then got lost as people talked about royal demons as BA spirits. In my opinion, royal demons like Belial are immortals and cannot be considered as BA spirits.
He cannot and should not be in the same category as lower demon spirits. It’s an insult to Belial.
You're absolutely right, if we are looking at this objectively.
When a being considered 'demon' is also considered immortal, the immortal part takes precedence. There are immortals that can get 'darker' or 'heavier' than others - they are multifaceted forces of nature and their source of energy determines them as being dualistic in nature in every case. I do think that most when practically working with the occult are understanding that presences like that attributed to Belial are not straight up 'evil', but because they are older - they can range into darker territory, or territory that is more primal and difficult for mortals to handle.
What I'm getting at is... very 'old', 'ancient' forces can present darker energetically in their removal from human construct, as well as forces that are aligned with cultures or groups which were known to sustain themselves in harsher conditions as a reflection, and these forces as a result can end up being 'demonized', so in turn looked at as 'malefic'.. I think that's normal albeit flawed. Then again, it keeps those who can't handle this kind of energy away whether through hear-tell or misguided experience.
I agree with both Vipera and Little Fairy! I also believe it is disrespectful to the Ars Goetia Beings (and Their Legions ad well) to say They are "bad" (by Ash's definition of black arts Spirits being bad). Adding onto what Vipera has said, the wrong information about Goetic Beings and Their Legion being spread, and people believing it, works as a way to keep people who can't handle Them away.
Baphomet is a perfect example! Too many people believe He's the Devil, yet a simple search into Baphomet's history will reveal His christian roots with the Knights Templar! Not very "evil".
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Also, Baphomet, basically, is a complex symbol which represents balance. Balance of Masculine and Feminine, the 4 Elements, Man's Primal Nature and Human (or "Civilised") Nature, and the Physical Realm with the Spiritual Realm, along with a few others.
Side rant; this is why I become annoyed at companies such as Kill Star (for example). I was browsing their website for one of their plus sized hoodie/cloaks, when I stumbled upon their plush toy line, and their "evil devilbaphomet" doll. Now I know why many in the gothic subculture don't like Kill Star. I also tend to do a "chuckle/grunt" when the black metal and death metal bands I go see throw Baphomet/Belial/Lucifer/Satan out there to be scary or edgy. (NUNSLAUGHTER is guilty of that, though I know bands such as NEXUL actually practice what they prea-err scream-about, but now I'm rambling.)
Anyways, I disagree with Ash's opinion on never working with black arts Spirits, partially because I disagree with what his definition of black arts.
I believe if you're naturally inclined towards Chaos, Blood, Dark Moon magik, or are a Luciferian for example, then a black arts Spirit would be necessary because They align more with your values, than say an Enochian Angelic Being would.
For context, Ash's definition of a black arts Spirit is not what I would define as black arts. I would define what Ash calls "black arts" Spirits simply as being malicious to everyone and should not be a companion to a human-period.
(I just lost 90 minutes worth of typing examples of how a black arts Spirit companion would protect Their human companion, but I think my examples might be too graphic for this forum. They were using two hypothetical examples; an Autistic person being bullied, and an adult survivor of child abuse being stalked by her abusive father. Someone please confirm if "words associated with violence" are allowed by the Moderators, depending on the context they're used.)