DarkAddictions wrote:With that said, I feel we do not have the right to impose on other peoples paths or decisions.People do have a right to pursue their own path in life.We can only hope, they are well prepared in dealing with said spirits and situations..Verna's analogy of the gun describes this perfectly.I do happen to love guns BTW..lol. : 2cents

I keep demons, but have NEVER used them irresponsibly. Is that to say no one else has? Of course not.

If you think you cannot handle the BA, or are new to magick, then do not keep one until YOU feel like YOU are ready.

scrubs, idk hon and with ash making it so easy to read and understand, idk. personally i think most either want to impress others or they really do not understand what ba spirits are capable of.

ash wrote an excellent post here with 6 reasons why they should not be kept but i'm not seeing that everyone really gets what he's trying to say. ?? a person with 10 years actual learned experience and training with a master might be able to temporarily control one but then again as ash pointed out...BA ENTITIES ARE EXTREMELY CLEVER & REALLY GOOD AT WORKING THE HUMAN NAIVETE & EGO. THEY USUALLY ROPE THE UNSUSPECTING IN BY MAKING THEM BELIEVE THEY CAN HANDLE IT. SOME CAN, BUT NOT USUALLY FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME. OTHERWISE THEIR PERCEPTION IS LIKELY TO BECOME COMPLETELY DISTORTED. THEY WON'T SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES. so for anyone who really thinks they are in control with ba spirits, re-read what a master of the da says. also remember that when these spirits end up hurting someone, it's ash and magnolia that get the hd tickets. just some "food for thought". what you decide is your own choice but ash knows what he is talking about with over 2 decades of direct experience, knowledge and training.

crone maatkaere wrote:BA ENTITIES ARE EXTREMELY CLEVER & REALLY GOOD AT WORKING THE HUMAN NAIVETE & EGO. THEY USUALLY ROPE THE UNSUSPECTING IN BY MAKING THEM BELIEVE THEY CAN HANDLE IT. SOME CAN, BUT NOT USUALLY FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME. OTHERWISE THEIR PERCEPTION IS LIKELY TO BECOME COMPLETELY DISTORTED. THEY WON'T SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES.

A good point, Crone. I have to keep mine under heavy watch. I respect them but do not fully trust them, unlike my DA and WA entities and spirits who have my full trust. I was never drawn to the BA at first, my first BA experience happened when I was 11 and met my first demon. I have been working with spirits to an extent for 4 years and magick for around 5 or 6, although I'm still somewhat new to buying/keeping BA spirits, I am not new to dealing with them. They often WILL take advantage of you, so it's a battle of wills on occasion. I mentioned this in the possession thread where my ego can shift when they get close to me, and I must stay fully aware of it.

sorry psyclone, thanks for thinking that was me but that was a direct one from ash. i was just trying to figure out why there weren't more who were really reading and listening to what ash was saying from direct experience. he's not one for unnecessary chatter so whenever he posts a topic it should be stickied because in these circumstances especially....when the chit rolls downhill and a mess ensues it's a hd ticket into ch that ash gets to help "clean it up".

my direct thoughts on most ba spirits is that unless one has at least 20 years of actual training and experience i would say don't touch one with even a 10' pole because a da spirits who are actually willing to assist and help humans are easily available...as ash pointed out, there really is no reason for a ba spirit. plus i don't normally use uppercase, lol. :grouphug:

crone maatkaere wrote:sorry psyclone, thanks for thinking that was me but that was a direct one from ash. i was just trying to figure out why there weren't more who were really reading and listening to what ash was saying from direct experience. he's not one for unnecessary chatter so whenever he posts a topic it should be stickied because in these circumstances especially....when the chit rolls downhill and a mess ensues it's a hd ticket into ch that ash gets to help "clean it up".

my direct thoughts on most ba spirits is that unless one has at least 20 years of actual training and experience i would say don't touch one with even a 10' pole because a da spirits who are actually willing to assist and help humans are easily available...as ash pointed out, there really is no reason for a ba spirit. plus i don't normally use uppercase, lol. :grouphug:

I agree with you 100% crone. And also with your previous post about some individuals just wanting to IMPRESS others and etc. by 'keeping' or at least alleging that they are keeping these spirits. Some people just want 'attention' and will say anything, even if they have very little actual understanding as to what they are talking about, to get it. I could not live my life that way, nor could I bring a BA spirit into my sphere and deal with it. NO THANKS! :wtf::

truthsmacabre wrote:I agree with you 100% crone. And also with your previous post about some individuals just wanting to IMPRESS others and etc. by 'keeping' or at least alleging that they are keeping these spirits. Some people just want 'attention' and will say anything, even if they have very little actual understanding as to what they are talking about, to get it. :wtf::

Sigh, even after I shared so many experiences and so much insight on all realms of the metaphysical, including but not limited to BA, I've even been grouped into this area before. Not saying YOU pointed this at me, but there are some people out there that openly talk about the BA with reason. Heck, Caiyros and I have been talking about our experiences with and opinions on BA through PM lately.

crone maatkaere wrote:sorry psyclone, thanks for thinking that was me but that was a direct one from ash. i was just trying to figure out why there weren't more who were really reading and listening to what ash was saying from direct experience. he's not one for unnecessary chatter so whenever he posts a topic it should be stickied because in these circumstances especially....when the chit rolls downhill and a mess ensues it's a hd ticket into ch that ash gets to help "clean it up".

my direct thoughts on most ba spirits is that unless one has at least 20 years of actual training and experience i would say don't touch one with even a 10' pole because a da spirits who are actually willing to assist and help humans are easily available...as ash pointed out, there really is no reason for a ba spirit. plus i don't normally use uppercase, lol. :grouphug:

I knew it was Ash (hehe, he's such a capslock addict), but YOU provided insight regarding that quote. I guess I'll say props to both of you guys. I enjoy your opinions, respect, and understand them. Most of my spirits are WA, GA, and DA, so who am I to say BA is the best? I personally do enjoy the company of mine, they just get things DONE without question to morality or ethics. Which, yes, I often get caught up in situations where I NEED that.

I use BA responsibly. And you know what? I'm not insane. I'm not looking for attention. I'm not injured, depressed or tormented. I'm not trying to put myself out as evil or dark. I'm not Satanic. I am simply a girl who can use all realms of magick to her advantage.

If BA were always detrimental, why aren't all Demonaltrists, Luciferians, LHP magicians, and Satanists dead, insane, etc? All of those religions do work with BA to a heavier extent than most others do. Heck, those people always seemed the MOST sane to me, since they did not tolerate BS from anyone....which is what I do and live by like a creed.

THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BA, DA, GA, & THE BORDERLINE BETWEEN DARK DA & MEDIAN DA.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE ARGUING APPLES TO APPLES, I THINK WE'RE ARGUING APPLES TO ORANGES.

IF YOU HAVE A SPIRIT IN YOUR CHARGE THAT IS CAPABLE OF NOT CAUSING YOU PROBLEMS, THEN IT'S NOT REALLY BA. BA WILL CAUSE YOU SOME ISSUE WHEN DEALING WITH IT, NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTTS. I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH BA OFF & ON IN ONE CAPACITY OR ANOTHER LONGER THAN SOME OF YOU HERE HAVE BEEN ALIVE & THAT SAID THERE IS NEVER A TIME I WORK WITH A BA SPIRIT OR TRUE BA MAGIC THAT IT DOESN'T COST ME SOMETHING. NEVER. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE ON THIS PLANET, IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO WORK IN TRUE BA FOR ANY REASON IT WILL COST YOU SOMETHING, IT ALWAYS DOES. EVEN THE MOST EXPERIENCED BA PRACTITIONER ON THIS EARTH HAS TO PAY HIS DUES.

I THINK THE COMPARISON ON HERE IS DISCUSSING REALLY DARK DA, AT WHICH POINT IT BECOMES A CHOICE OF PREFERENCE IN LIFESTYLE, BELIEF SYSTEM, & PATH.

With that said, I feel we do not have the right to impose on other peoples paths or decisions.People do have a right to pursue their own path in life.We can only hope, they are well prepared in dealing with said spirits and situations..Verna's analogy of the gun describes this perfectly.I do happen to love guns BTW..lol.

I DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS ANY IMPOSING. DIDN'T WE BEAT THIS HORSE DEAD IN ANOTHER THREAD ALREADY? THAT WAS THE POINT OF OPENING THIS ONE, BECAUSE SOMEONE DIRECTLY ASKED ME MY VIEW ON KEEPING & WORK WITH BA. I DON'T WANT TO START WITH A NEW HORSE & BEAT IT TO DEATH AS WELL ON THE WHO'S RIGHT, WHO'S WRONG, WHO'S PICKING ON ONE GROUP OR ANOTHER, WE'RE DONE WITH THAT NOW. WE DID THAT LAST WEEK.

I REALIZE THAT SOME OF YOU ARE COMING FROM A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT FROM ALL OF THIS. I'M COMING FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF DOING THIS 24/7/365, & THE GUY WHO GETS AN EMAIL OR HD TICKET WHEN SOMEONE MAKES A BAD MISTAKE. I'M THE CLEAN-UP CREW & I'VE HAD MORE THAN ONE THREAD ON HERE ABOUT HAVING TO CLEAN UP AFTER SOMEONE GETS THEMSELVES IN OVER THEIR HEADS.

SO, IMPOSE? NO. MAKE A STRONG RECOMMENDATION WHEN I CAN SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE? YES.

EXAMPLE: IF I JUMP OFF A CLIFF & I BREAK MY LEG AND YOU COME TO ME & SAY "HEY? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF JUMPING OFF THAT CLIFF?" I'M GOING TO RESPOND, LIKE ANY NATURAL PERSON & SAY "I JUMPED OFF THE CLIFF & BROKE MY LEG ON THOSE JAGGED, DANGEROUS ROCKS BELOW". AFTER THAT IT'S UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO JUMP. I CAN'T STOP YOU FROM JUMPING, BUT I CAN CERTAINLY TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT.

ash-mda wrote:THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BA, DA, GA, & THE BORDERLINE BETWEEN DARK DA & MEDIAN DA.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE ARGUING APPLES TO APPLES, I THINK WE'RE ARGUING APPLES TO ORANGES.

IF YOU HAVE A SPIRIT IN YOUR CHARGE THAT IS CAPABLE OF NOT CAUSING YOU PROBLEMS, THEN IT'S NOT REALLY BA. BA WILL CAUSE YOU SOME ISSUE WHEN DEALING WITH IT, NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTTS. I'VE BEEN DEALING WITH BA OFF & ON IN ONE CAPACITY OR ANOTHER LONGER THAN SOME OF YOU HERE HAVE BEEN ALIVE & THAT SAID THERE IS NEVER A TIME I WORK WITH A BA SPIRIT OR TRUE BA MAGIC THAT IT DOESN'T COST ME SOMETHING. NEVER. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE ON THIS PLANET, IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO WORK IN TRUE BA FOR ANY REASON IT WILL COST YOU SOMETHING, IT ALWAYS DOES. EVEN THE MOST EXPERIENCED BA PRACTITIONER ON THIS EARTH HAS TO PAY HIS DUES.

I THINK THE COMPARISON ON HERE IS DISCUSSING REALLY DARK DA, AT WHICH POINT IT BECOMES A CHOICE OF PREFERENCE IN LIFESTYLE, BELIEF SYSTEM, & PATH.

With that said, I feel we do not have the right to impose on other peoples paths or decisions.People do have a right to pursue their own path in life.We can only hope, they are well prepared in dealing with said spirits and situations..Verna's analogy of the gun describes this perfectly.I do happen to love guns BTW..lol.

I DIDN'T THINK THERE WAS ANY IMPOSING. DIDN'T WE BEAT THIS HORSE DEAD IN ANOTHER THREAD ALREADY? THAT WAS THE POINT OF OPENING THIS ONE, BECAUSE SOMEONE DIRECTLY ASKED ME MY VIEW ON KEEPING & WORK WITH BA. I DON'T WANT TO START WITH A NEW HORSE & BEAT IT TO DEATH AS WELL ON THE WHO'S RIGHT, WHO'S WRONG, WHO'S PICKING ON ONE GROUP OR ANOTHER, WE'RE DONE WITH THAT NOW. WE DID THAT LAST WEEK.

I REALIZE THAT SOME OF YOU ARE COMING FROM A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT FROM ALL OF THIS. I'M COMING FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF DOING THIS 24/7/365, & THE GUY WHO GETS AN EMAIL OR HD TICKET WHEN SOMEONE MAKES A BAD MISTAKE. I'M THE CLEAN-UP CREW & I'VE HAD MORE THAN ONE THREAD ON HERE ABOUT HAVING TO CLEAN UP AFTER SOMEONE GETS THEMSELVES IN OVER THEIR HEADS.

SO, IMPOSE? NO. MAKE A STRONG RECOMMENDATION WHEN I CAN SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE? YES.

Hey Ash is it possible that a BA could be bound so it can't cause problems? At Spirited Enterprise they say their demons are bound and cannot harm they're keeper, this is also what Juliana's GMC says about her Shadow Demons.
Then again its possible that these demons are not BA, but just really DA like you said.

ash-mda wrote:THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BA, DA, GA, & THE BORDERLINE BETWEEN DARK DA & MEDIAN DA. I DON'T THINK WE'RE ARGUING APPLES TO APPLES, I THINK WE'RE ARGUING APPLES TO ORANGES.

IF YOU HAVE A SPIRIT IN YOUR CHARGE THAT IS CAPABLE OF NOT CAUSING YOU PROBLEMS, THEN IT'S NOT REALLY BA.

Ah, thank you! That description clears the definition up greatly of where the DA/BA line is. :thumbup:

My previous line was a wee bit lighter and squigglier. :lol:

ash-mda wrote: EXAMPLE: IF I JUMP OFF A CLIFF & I BREAK MY LEG AND YOU COME TO ME & SAY "HEY? WHAT DO YOU THINK OF JUMPING OFF THAT CLIFF?" I'M GOING TO RESPOND, LIKE ANY NATURAL PERSON & SAY "I JUMPED OFF THE CLIFF & BROKE MY LEG ON THOSE JAGGED, DANGEROUS ROCKS BELOW". AFTER THAT IT'S UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO JUMP. I CAN'T STOP YOU FROM JUMPING, BUT I CAN CERTAINLY TELL YOU WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT.

LOVE this analogy!

The only difference being you can inadvertently end up taking your friends and family down with you.