THE CYNIC & ME-WHY ISN'T THE PARANORMAL EVER CAUGHT ON TAPE

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Ashino Tsume roshi
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ash-mda wrote:
but Americans don't get science news because its never reported...The average person out there is responding to Newtonian ideas and Einsteinian mechanics and we have gone light years beyond that...
TRUE. YOU HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE OF THE AVERAGE SCOPE OF AMERICAN REPORTING TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. OR, KNOW SOMEONE IN THE FIELD, WHICH IS BETTER.
Science is not the enemy...the fearof science is the enemy....Most scientist that I have met are mystics.....
THEY ARE NO ENEMY, BUT THOSE WHO WANT TO USE THE ARGUMENT OF SCIENCE TO DISCREDIT THE PARANORMAL, OFTEN DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT WHEN HAS THAT EVER STOPPED AN IGNORANT PERSON FROM SPEAKING ANYWAY?

I KNOW SOME SCIENTISTS ARE IN IT TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE INEXPLICABLE & THE EXISTENCE OF PARANORMAL. BUT, THEN YOU HAVE YOUR HARVARD GRADS WHO ARE OUT TO DISPROVE RELIGION, SPIRITUALITY, & FAITH IN GENERAL. YES, I AM PICKING ON HARVARD :crazy: DOESN'T MATTER, HE WON'T BE HERE TO READ IT ANYWAY. :crazy:

THE PARANORMAL EXISTS WHETHER THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY EXISTS OR NOT. SCIENCE IS A SERVICE, NOT A PHENOMENA IN THE WAY THAT THE PARANORMAL IS A PHENOMENA. SCIENCE IS RESEARCH, EXPLORATION, EXPLANATION, & RECORDED HISTORY OF ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED. AND THAT IS ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE. THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY'S OPINIONS VARY NOT ONLY BY CULTURE & COUNTRY, BUT BY SCIENTIST WITHIN THOSE CULTURES & COUNTRIES! WHO IS RIGHT? WHO IS WRONG? EITHER WAY, THE PARANORMAL FORGES ON NO MATTER WHAT THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY'S CURRENT VIEWPOINT IS.

I agree with most of what you are saying...And many of us tried to get Larry Summers removed from controlling Harvard ...and finally he was forced out...but before then and now...Harvard has the most radical professors that you can imagine...and many of them are deeply involved mystics.....When I was there ...it was the time of Tim Leary, WIlliam S Burroughs, and many many others.. The attempted take-over by neo-cons of Harvard as failed...and VERITAS lives on...but MITurkey is another case entirely........UGH! Another place with a radical profeesorship SUNY at Geneseo NY

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I think the best kind of scientist, ones who could make the largest contributions, are those who look outside of the proverbial box. Restraining oneself through scientific doctrine to believe in that which can only be observed and tested seem to limit and end all the greatest contributions to science that these scientific mystics have ever made. For instance gravity. It is an unseen force, one that we all know exists, but one that if you ask nearly anyone to explain it comes up short. Then there are the more amazing aspects of science that lead to the mystical, for instance "the golden ratio" by dividing a rectangle over and over. An observable phenomena but one that leads to more mystical significance. Also the Fibonacci sequence. I believe as time goes on science and the mystical will become intertwined where as one can not exist without the other.


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but isn't it because of science that made it possible for the ghost hunters to be able to measure such things as EMF's in places that don't even have electricity running in them? also if it wasn't for the invention of devices such as the ovilator, and digital recorders, we may have never been able to hear WHAT was being said to us. i do agree that most of us experience with our own senses rather than complicated machines, but then how do they know what a person feels when they touch something as simple as a piece of wool? for some of us it may feel itchy or scratchy vs. others finding it to be soft and almost warm to the touch.

i think that the biggest problem for scientist is that since they can't "catch" a ghost to thoroughly examine it, dissect it, and catalog it then it must be bunk, there for it can't exist.


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It is not the job of the scientist to prove or disprove the paranormal. Rather it is his job to come up with a theory that is replicable
over and over. In the case of chemistry and physics those rules works fine. But when we add the element of consciousness that can chose not to behave like a predictable domino, then trying to force all of life's quandaries through those rules is useless.

When one event occurs two entities can chose to react differently. There is no way to measure or predict how it will react with certainty, especially if you can't see it, and especially if it does not want to be measured. If it could be measured and predicted it is no longer paranormal, rather it is just normal.....

So can something that is replicable be of paranormal origin? I personally think there is a lot of space for slight of hand and trickery, both by human and spirit. Just got to observe, and find your own truth.

There are some experiences that can't be taped, like feelings, touch, random static charges in your sleep, energy passing through you. We can barely feel xrays, but xrays are real no? I mean we can argue, but there isn't any sense, until the person goes through it themselves. Then the know-it-all arguer can drive themselves crazy and argue with themselves.


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ash-mda wrote:
but Americans don't get science news because its never reported...The average person out there is responding to Newtonian ideas and Einsteinian mechanics and we have gone light years beyond that...
TRUE. YOU HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE OF THE AVERAGE SCOPE OF AMERICAN REPORTING TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. OR, KNOW SOMEONE IN THE FIELD, WHICH IS BETTER.
Science is not the enemy...the fearof science is the enemy....Most scientist that I have met are mystics.....
THEY ARE NO ENEMY, BUT THOSE WHO WANT TO USE THE ARGUMENT OF SCIENCE TO DISCREDIT THE PARANORMAL, OFTEN DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT WHEN HAS THAT EVER STOPPED AN IGNORANT PERSON FROM SPEAKING ANYWAY?

I KNOW SOME SCIENTISTS ARE IN IT TO PROVE THE EXISTENCE OF THE INEXPLICABLE & THE EXISTENCE OF PARANORMAL. BUT, THEN YOU HAVE YOUR HARVARD GRADS WHO ARE OUT TO DISPROVE RELIGION, SPIRITUALITY, & FAITH IN GENERAL. YES, I AM PICKING ON HARVARD :crazy: DOESN'T MATTER, HE WON'T BE HERE TO READ IT ANYWAY. :crazy:

THE PARANORMAL EXISTS WHETHER THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY EXISTS OR NOT. SCIENCE IS A SERVICE, NOT A PHENOMENA IN THE WAY THAT THE PARANORMAL IS A PHENOMENA. SCIENCE IS RESEARCH, EXPLORATION, EXPLANATION, & RECORDED HISTORY OF ALL THAT HAS HAPPENED. AND THAT IS ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE. THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY'S OPINIONS VARY NOT ONLY BY CULTURE & COUNTRY, BUT BY SCIENTIST WITHIN THOSE CULTURES & COUNTRIES! WHO IS RIGHT? WHO IS WRONG? EITHER WAY, THE PARANORMAL FORGES ON NO MATTER WHAT THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY'S CURRENT VIEWPOINT IS.

I agree with most of what you are saying...And many of us tried to get Larry Summers removed from controlling Harvard ...and finally he was forced out...but before then and now...Harvard has the most radical professors that you can imagine...and many of them are deeply involved mystics.....When I was there ...it was the time of Tim Leary, WIlliam S Burroughs, and many many others.. The attempted take-over by neo-cons of Harvard as failed...and VERITAS lives on...but MITurkey is another case entirely........UGH! Another place with a radical profeesorship SUNY at Geneseo NY

Caiyros


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SEER777 wrote:I think the best kind of scientist, ones who could make the largest contributions, are those who look outside of the proverbial box. Restraining oneself through scientific doctrine to believe in that which can only be observed and tested seem to limit and end all the greatest contributions to science that these scientific mystics have ever made. For instance gravity. It is an unseen force, one that we all know exists, but one that if you ask nearly anyone to explain it comes up short. Then there are the more amazing aspects of science that lead to the mystical, for instance "the golden ratio" by dividing a rectangle over and over. An observable phenomena but one that leads to more mystical significance. Also the Fibonacci sequence. I believe as time goes on science and the mystical will become intertwined where as one can not exist without the other.
I found this video the other day and i think it explains quite profoundly exactly what I discussed above. And, who doesn;t like Donald duck-Mathamagick!

http://www.wimp.com/mathemagicland/


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Comments in line:[

quote="AngelDust"]It is not the job of the scientist to prove or disprove the paranormal. Rather it is his job to come up with a theory that is replicable
What you are saying can happen but it is not science....it is simply lab work.....Science is the Systematic Study of Reality as we can perceive it. Science can lead to Theories, Theorems, lab work, and Knowing that One Does Not Know"

When it comes to Proof and its Availability.......You can travel the long road from Aristotle o Heisenberg ...and there is a lot of disagreement....


over and over. In the case of chemistry and physics those rules works fine. But when we add the element of consciousness that can chose not to behave like a predictable domino,

Even a domino gets "shuffled"...prediction is usually seen as probability....absolute fact and "An Always" is Mediaeval Thinking...not science.....but certainly to obtain predictibility to some degree is good....there are exceptions to every rule and classical Euclidean logic works just as poorly as The Bible, Koran, & TAlmud, when it comes down to it...

then trying to force all of life's quandaries through those rules is useless.

Prove to me that the Unknown is a Quandary


When one event occurs two entities can chose to react differently.
Not if they are standing at Ground Zero of a nuclear explosion.

There is no way to measure or predict how it will react with certainty, especially if you can't see it, and especially if it does not want to be measured.
Certainty is Mediaeval....Repeatability in paradigm conditions and observations of probability are Modern Science.

If it could be measured and predicted it is no longer paranormal, rather it is just normal.....
A word game....Since predictability is normal...then so is paranormal predictable in many cases...so what do you do now....a dead end (no pun intended)

So can something that is replicable be of paranormal origin? I personally think there is a lot of space for slight of hand and trickery, both by human and spirit. Just got to observe, and find your own truth.

A Mediaeval view...For instance, Is the Sun parnormal or normal? Is the Sun predictable or unpredictable...You've got both at once...here...and the resolution is "Both-At-Once" another version of "Both-AT-Once" is that the Quanta World and the Relativity World Coexist together.

There are some experiences that can't be taped, like feelings, touch, random static charges in your sleep, energy passing through you.

Wrong. We simply do not know, and if you do know, then its not paranormal, which is merely a circular definition used to keep "paranormal" in holding pattern of definition, rather than moving forward......Further, we should not confuse Human Individuality with either definition or a lack of definition...but we can describe it and compare similiarities that are never entirely the same and also look at a human event that is rare or previously unseen. Definition runs roughshod sometimes....for instance. How many people have died and come back to life? A whole gruntload of 'em including myself...but it is called "Near-Death-Experience" so the truth is made "fuzzy"....but the observable truth has been documented....

We can barely feel xrays, but xrays are real no? I mean we can argue, but there isn't any sense, until the person goes through it themselves.


Then the know-it-all arguer
Are you talking to me? Because it is a minor insult.....and quite often in arguements this is said, when the person runs out of ideas. Also, almost by definition Know-It-Alls worship themselves.....Let me go on record that I don't give a rat's a*s whether you respect me or not, but I also won't put up with it either. And speaking for others who have been attempted to be crucified as Know-It-Alls........most of us Know-It-Alls have worked very hard our whole lives, with very little pay, slight gratitude from anyone, and to exist have to tolerate a lot of unpleasantness...and yes, we are up to it......But are you?
can drive themselves crazy and argue with themselves.
To quote Bogart in "The Falcon"..."What do you want me to do, learn to stutter?" Also, men and women that did just what you are now talking about have names like Thales, Im-Hotep, Hermes Trismegestus, Roger BAcon, James Maxwell, Hertz, Neils Bohr, Nikola Tesla, Madame Curie, Einstein, and so on...they never drove themselves crazy....C-
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What are you talking about Caiyros? I am talking about why the paranormal can't be caught on tape, and why science can't answer all. It has nothing to do with you. But today you seem all over the place. So I will refrain from answering.


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AngelDust wrote:What are you talking about Caiyros? I am talking about why the paranormal can't be caught on tape, and why science can't answer all. It has nothing to do with you. But today you seem all over the place. So I will refrain from answering.
Isn't my original post clear enough? The PAranormal world of Voices HAS BEEN TAPE RECORDED by KONSTANINE RAUDIVE.......I have done it myself and so have other people and when you hear it you DO REALIZE its real....


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Caiyros Arlan wrote:
AngelDust wrote:What are you talking about Caiyros? I am talking about why the paranormal can't be caught on tape, and why science can't answer all. It has nothing to do with you. But today you seem all over the place. So I will refrain from answering.
Isn't my original post clear enough? The PAranormal world of Voices HAS BEEN TAPE RECORDED by KONSTANINE RAUDIVE.......I have done it myself and so have other people and when you hear it you DO REALIZE its real....
No of course it's not clear. Have forgot we are from two different planets? LOL. Please simply your thoughts I am slow today and don't feel like digging in the brain reserves to decipher secret meanings and intentions. So no I wasn't referring to you as the know-it-all. But you do have your days.

I am saying currently we cannot record touch when it does touch you. You have not addressed the ability to record touch. I said nothing about audio. So we are not even talking about the same things.

The sound can be argued as radiowaves, dream voices, etc. Sound alone is not reliable. It is one of many ways to measure. But not enough to convince the skeptic/public.
Last edited by Samsara on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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