I know a lot of people don't think we really need the over 18 room and I can understand the argument. I know there are threads on the forum for discussing adult topics related to sexual spirits. But I also know that it's not the same as having a live discussion as some forum posts go for days without a response at all.

I don't know all the details as I haven't been there for it, but it is my understanding that the problem is mainly that there is no mod for the over 18 room. I can see how this might be a trouble area as mods want to be able to participate in conversations as well, and no one likes the idea of sitting in a mostly empty chat room just to monitor. So...why not set up the chat on IRC so the mods can log in using mIRC, Trillian or a similar program that allows them to monitor both rooms rather than only one at time?

It's not a bad suggestion, and we are looking into alternatives. However, the issue isn't moderating an adult discussion, it is that chatters were using the Over 18 room to usurp the rules of the chat room. They would use the room to give readings, to give really unprofessional advice, and some people were using it as the alternative for the IM system, and telling people when they came into the room to leave! I thought, at least until some of the troublamkers can realize a chat room is for chatting & not for sales, solicitation, diagnosing health or spiritual problems, or any other issue, that perhaps having one room for moderators to keep an eye on would be best.

Mag.

Whats wrong with experienced keepers giving the new keepers advice on their spirits. If their spirit wants to come thru and talk while those people are in the 18room.

I just think that is a nice and helpful gesture for someone to do.


ps. Just askin ya.

Darkstar wrote:Mag.

Whats wrong with experienced keepers giving the new keepers advice on their spirits. If their spirit wants to come thru and talk while those people are in the 18room.

I just think that is a nice and helpful gesture for someone to do.


ps. Just askin ya.

there's a difference between giving advice and doing a reading. advice is letting someone know that vampires love aloe and classical music. a reading is saying "M wants you to know he's not happy. you should get rid of him."

Well, I understand the reasons for not allowing those things. I actually don't think it would be hard for a mod to monitor both rooms on IRC since they can be logged into both simultaneously. I've done it on a game chat before when I was a mod there. If the mod is present in both rooms simultaneously, they can just switch tabs (if they're using Trillian) to check on things in the less populated room. Then they can put a stop to the issue of members asking others to leave and/or dominating the over 18 room. The only time I really see monitoring both rooms becoming a problem if there is only one mod available is during those (seemingly rare) times when the chat is overly busy. From what I've seen of the chat the last week (I've been on there for hours straight every day lately), it's usually very slow in there.

As far as the issue of members giving readings and things for each other in chat, this part I don't fully understand. If the readings are merely for informational purposes and are not soliciting services for payment but are done freely without offering a suggestion/diagnosis of a problem that should be addressed by a professional, I'm not sure why it's ok on the forum but not in the chat.

As an example, say a keeper (I had this issue) finds they have a spirit who is attached to an item and they want to make contact and bond with them but they need basic information such as species or a basic description that they can't yet get on their own. I'm not sure I understand the reason for disallowing that on chat as long as one member isn't specifically trying to be a medium between spirit and keeper for the purpose of passing messages. I'm talking about just basic information that you normally get from a conjurer when you get a prebound spirit.

Ashira wrote:Well, I understand the reasons for not allowing those things. I actually don't think it would be hard for a mod to monitor both rooms on IRC since they can be logged into both simultaneously. I've done it on a game chat before when I was a mod there. If the mod is present in both rooms simultaneously, they can just switch tabs (if they're using Trillian) to check on things in the less populated room. Then they can put a stop to the issue of members asking others to leave and/or dominating the over 18 room. The only time I really see monitoring both rooms becoming a problem if there is only one mod available is during those (seemingly rare) times when the chat is overly busy. From what I've seen of the chat the last week (I've been on there for hours straight every day lately), it's usually very slow in there.

when you're talking about switching tabs that's almost like leaving one room to go and check on another room.

As far as the issue of members giving readings and things for each other in chat, this part I don't fully understand. If the readings are merely for informational purposes and are not soliciting services for payment but are done freely without offering a suggestion/diagnosis of a problem that should be addressed by a professional, I'm not sure why it's ok on the forum but not in the chat.

it's not ok in either. when someone reads a vessel on the forum they may be just trying to work on seeing things and are not giving you a true reading, or an expert who really can see the spirit is helping others to hone in on where they see the spirit. i know the forum doesn't allow "free readings" and will ask the person giving the free reading politely to stop.

As an example, say a keeper (I had this issue) finds they have a spirit who is attached to an item and they want to make contact and bond with them but they need basic information such as species or a basic description that they can't yet get on their own. I'm not sure I understand the reason for disallowing that on chat as long as one member isn't specifically trying to be a medium between spirit and keeper for the purpose of passing messages. I'm talking about just basic information that you normally get from a conjurer when you get a prebound spirit.

the problem with this is that sometimes spirits don't want to talk to others or people have hidden agendas. a while back a member who offered their services in the MP was telling people that their spirits weren't happy and that they wanted to be rehomed. some of these people believing this person did just that.... rehomed their spirits. now i know that happened in the MP and not in chat or in the forum for free but things have happened in chat that some of us have had to disprove what was being said with threads from magnolia and ash explaining why what ever the "reader" was saying was incorrect. chat if for chat.

I can understand about being cautious if the reader was lying to other members. 'thats awful'

Dark Abyss wrote:when you're talking about switching tabs that's almost like leaving one room to go and check on another room.

It's actually not the same because you do not actually leave the room, so you can still view conversations which were taking place while you were -looking- at the other room. You may have to scroll up a bit if the room is busy or you were looking away for very long, but the text would still be available to you.

Dark Abyss wrote:

As far as the issue of members giving readings and things for each other in chat, this part I don't fully understand. If the readings are merely for informational purposes and are not soliciting services for payment but are done freely without offering a suggestion/diagnosis of a problem that should be addressed by a professional, I'm not sure why it's ok on the forum but not in the chat.

it's not ok in either. when someone reads a vessel on the forum they may be just trying to work on seeing things and are not giving you a true reading, or an expert who really can see the spirit is helping others to hone in on where they see the spirit. i know the forum doesn't allow "free readings" and will ask the person giving the free reading politely to stop.

It was my understanding that the psychic readings section was FOR this...if not, then what is it for? But as I already stated, I was not referring to a third party passing messages between spirit and keeper OR making a suggestion as to what the keeper should do about a situation. I was referring to the issue of asking another for their "impression" as to the nature of an unidentified spirit bound or attached to an item. You're saying this isn't allowed on the forums either, even though there appears to be a category for it, but I'm not sure how this differs from -paying- for such assistance through the MP as a seller on the MP could logically be just as inexperienced as the guy on the forum/chat offering his impression out of courtesy. But again, I simply don't understand the reason for not allowing -live- conversations on chat about things that -are- allowed on the forum if it does -not- put anyone under pressure to purchase something and does -not- cross the line of John telling Jane "your spirit is telling me this...".

If the chat really is this strict as to limiting the "help" you can get from other members there and really does put such strict limits on what spirit-keeping related topics are allowed in there, it might be helpful to have the chat rules rewritten a bit to clarify that for newer people. ...but I'm still struggling with understanding the idea of having a chat room for spirit keeping where you're not really allowed to discuss spirit keeping much...as you seem to be giving me the impression that the chat room is only for general conversation such as you would find on a "normal" social site.

Dark Abyss wrote:

As an example, say a keeper (I had this issue) finds they have a spirit who is attached to an item and they want to make contact and bond with them but they need basic information such as species or a basic description that they can't yet get on their own. I'm not sure I understand the reason for disallowing that on chat as long as one member isn't specifically trying to be a medium between spirit and keeper for the purpose of passing messages. I'm talking about just basic information that you normally get from a conjurer when you get a prebound spirit.

the problem with this is that sometimes spirits don't want to talk to others or people have hidden agendas. a while back a member who offered their services in the MP was telling people that their spirits weren't happy and that they wanted to be rehomed. some of these people believing this person did just that.... rehomed their spirits. now i know that happened in the MP and not in chat or in the forum for free but things have happened in chat that some of us have had to disprove what was being said with threads from magnolia and ash explaining why what ever the "reader" was saying was incorrect. chat if for chat.

My previous comments already covered this...but just to be clear, this is -not- what I had been referring to. And if the only reason that people are not allowed to -help- each other with specific things in chat that they -do- have a place for on the forum is simply because Ash and Mags can't see the discussion to put a stop to it... Well, I thought that was why the mods are there in the first place...to keep an eye on things. And I also thought the logs were periodically reviewed by Mags to deal with any issues that -do- come up in there. Really, if someone posts on the forum pulling crap like that, because it can take awhile for people to actually notice some threads, this can happen just as easily on the forum without someone stepping in until days later.

Again...I do understand why members should not be giving other keepers advice or suggestions or passing messages regarding their own spirits or situations which need to be addressed by a professional. But I don't understand not being allowed to ask other members for help with something that you -can- ask for help with on the forum. The frustration some of us have is that we get little or no response to our threads sometimes if no one is browsing the particular forum we posted in or we don't word our title properly to get the attention of someone who can help...and sometimes a week later, we still get no help. It may be easy enough for some to say just order a custom spell or just get a reading from one of the sellers on the MP...but some of us need help with some things and simply do not have the money to pay for help and it's just a little ridiculous to bother CH with a help ticket for every little thing that other keepers could assist with under the supervision of the mods.

To me...it feels a little like we're being told the chat is a hang-out only and if you need help with something, "sorry, you just can't have a live conversation for that, you will have to post in the forum or send in a helpdesk ticket and hope you get the response you need in a few days or so. Otherwise, you're simply outta luck."

sorry i misunderstood your comment on the JUST reading a vessel. for that i apologize. and that part is fine. again sorry about that. also i misunderstood the part where it would be on the same screen for chat. the way i thought it would work is if i had to tab in and out like you do to go to a separate websites.