If some spirits are sold for revenge (wraiths etc) why are people down on demon keepers used for the same purpose?

I'm thinking it's because demons are so unbelievably powerful, they can and most likely will take a person over, all the while convincing them they (the human) is in the driver's seat, when NOTHING could be further from the truth. So it's a reaction born of concern for the keeper. It's just not exacuted well sometimes.

Good question :thumbup: I have a wraith and a few demons and in my opinion its much easier to work with and control the wraith, although I've never used him for revenge. I think most folks adopt wraiths more for protection than revenge, although a wraith (or any other dark spirit or entity) is capable of doing anything a demon can do. I think some of it comes down to personal preference and some of it might be personal experience. Some here have had less than positive experiences with demons, both unbound and bound. Even bound demons can be dangerous no matter how reputable the seller is, or how safe they say they are. If someone is mentally/emotionally/spiritually unbalanced, a demon's heavy energy will definitely compound the problem and make things worse for the keeper.

Evil Annie wrote:Good question :thumbup: I have a wraith and a few demons and in my opinion its much easier to work with and control the wraith, although I've never used him for revenge. I think most folks adopt wraiths more for protection than revenge, although a wraith (or any other dark spirit or entity) is capable of doing anything a demon can do. I think some of it comes down to personal preference and some of it might be personal experience. Some here have had less than positive experiences with demons, both unbound and bound. Even bound demons can be dangerous no matter how reputable the seller is, or how safe they say they are. If someone is mentally/emotionally/spiritually unbalanced, a demon's heavy energy will definitely compound the problem and make things worse for the keeper.

what does spiritually unbalanced mean? (curious)
I asked about revenge because I remember seeing a post by ash somewhere where he said something like "keeping demons to wreck havoc on the rest of us...." As if demons were the only entity people could do this with. From what I am reading, its not true. I am quite new, so its more of a question then a statement.
I dont know about demons being as bad as they seem to be thought of though. Anyone I know who keeps them (I know one who has had demon keeping in their family for generations) is fine...really they are. But I DO understand how it can be bad in the wrong or very worst situation.
One thing I have learned as of late is..there really is no black and white in life. No absolute right and wrong and easy answers. Shades of grey seems to be more of a given with most things. We can point to the very worst of possibilities and the very best and use them as rules..but honestly, it would not be the norm either way for most of us.

Even demons come in shades of darkness. I think what was ment with the term Spiritually unbalanced is everything, from Chakras to shields and the like, better darn well be in order before you not only keep the demon, but ask it to do something for you. Because they are very powerful, and will exploit any weakness, spiritual or emotional. Ash is the best one to answer, and if you can, look up any and all of his posts on demons, he is a Master. But.....if you are thinking of getting one, at least do his 10 day protection ritual before anything comes into your house. I'm not saying they are bad for all keepers, some keepers if they are experienced and know what to expect, can deal with them.
But only time can give you experience, so don't be in a rush to do this. It's AMAZING how much I've changed and grown in power over the last year....in a year you will probably be in a very similar place. So no worries, you'll get to the spot where you can make the decision if that is something that interests you. :thumbup:

there is a big difference between ba spirits and da spirits and as has been said it has to do with how much a human keeper can effectuate control. ba spirits mostly are not even able to be kept by humans for reasons from they will kill a human, eat their flesh, etc. da spirits are those of dual nature as we humans are. da spirits are capable of good or bad but they are controllable by the human keeper. as for demons and humans thinking they are "keeping" them and in "control" it is a real falsehood and it is the demon's trickery that the human believes they're in control. i personally see demon keeping as an ego issue and more often than not it is the more successful keepers who never even mention having such spirits because they're not about to give them any leverage at all. acknowledging a demon entity is giving control right over to them and i have to ask what can a keeper get from a demon that they can not get from either a wa or da spirit without all the hassle of trying to control a spirit that can not be controlled in the end? just my thoughts and hope this helps a bit

Rasputin wrote:I asked about revenge because I remember seeing a post by ash somewhere where he said something like "keeping demons to wreck havoc on the rest of us...." As if demons were the only entity people could do this with. From what I am reading, its not true. I am quite new, so its more of a question then a statement.
I dont know about demons being as bad as they seem to be thought of though. Anyone I know who keeps them (I know one who has had demon keeping in their family for generations) is fine...really they are. But I DO understand how it can be bad in the wrong or very worst situation.

One thing I have learned as of late is..there really is no black and white in life. No absolute right and wrong and easy answers. Shades of grey seems to be more of a given with most things. We can point to the very worst of possibilities and the very best and use them as rules..but honestly, it would not be the norm either way for most of us.

If I can be perfectly blunt and honest here, it does sound like you're trying to apply logic, human logic, to non-human entities that have wreaked havoc and destruction on mankind since the dawn of time... when you have a master practitioner like Ash warning people and they still don't listen, what can you do but just say your piece and let them knock themselves out (sometimes literally, as you can lose your life to these things). There's no reason to keep them when DAs are enough to achieve the same goals and can be better controlled. I sure as heck don't have the experience to be supporting any path over another, but I do listen to practitioners who have as much experience as the time I've spent on this earth... from what I've witnessed here, people who rationalize and attempt to draw distinctions between "Well, from what I've observed, they've been kept and no discernible harm" are usually the ones with the leaste amount of experience looking to bring one into their keep... My primary issue with this is the lack of safety and forethought, unless you count attempts at justification, that go into this line of thinking... but these are just my opinions.

I will say, this board has seen its fair share of people who think this way, then get a demon... and months later everyone is privy to cries for help as the situation has gotten out of control and the demon has brought others in from its legion and turned against its "Keeper..." a case of the demon keeping the keeper, and not the other way around...

But human egos are a silly and fragile thing...and these beings know how to exploit them. 2cents

Note/disclaimer: I recognize the use of BA when necessary but point to BA knowledgeable people here on this board who have already pointed out themselves that beyond education and some areas of application, BA is generally not necessary when DA can achieve the same aims.... thus what pushes one to BA to the sole exclusion of other paths? My theory is - some aspect of the psyche seeks gratification.

crone maatkaere wrote:there is a big difference between ba spirits and da spirits and as has been said it has to do with how much a human keeper can effectuate control. ba spirits mostly are not even able to be kept by humans for reasons from they will kill a human, eat their flesh, etc. da spirits are those of dual nature as we humans are. da spirits are capable of good or bad but they are controllable by the human keeper. as for demons and humans thinking they are "keeping" them and in "control" it is a real falsehood and it is the demon's trickery that the human believes they're in control. i personally see demon keeping as an ego issue and more often than not it is the more successful keepers who never even mention having such spirits because they're not about to give them any leverage at all. acknowledging a demon entity is giving control right over to them and i have to ask what can a keeper get from a demon that they can not get from either a wa or da spirit without all the hassle of trying to control a spirit that can not be controlled in the end? just my thoughts and hope this helps a bit

:thumbup:

ok, with the risk of being shot down, i am going to step into the firing line


first off, demons are DA, not BA.
I think demons get a bad rap, becuase of the social meaning of 'demon'. Remember that demons were once angels, who excersied free will and were cast down because of it. does that make them evil? I do not think so.

Yes, certain entities can wreak havock on peoples lives. Entities conjured by inexperienced practitioners; BA entites are clever, they can say that they are something else, some can mimic the energy of what they claim to be. That is why it is our responsibillity as keepers to make sure those we buy from have enough experience. Dont just rely on the reviews - most keepers cant recognise the energy signature of a fae and how it differs from a vampire. I say MOST, not all, and i am one of the most. Its very nice to see a positive review, but people usually comment on how active the spirit is, not wether it is the right thing. Sometimes there can be a bit too much blind faith.

Also, I talked about this with a seller recently, and she places demons in the middle of the DA spectrum.

I would recomend that you read this
http://hauntedtarotmagick.yuku.com/topi ... nfo?page=1
it has a lot of demon information on it.

And now, I casually step back from the fireing line

Gloss_Reality wrote:ok, with the risk of being shot down, i am going to step into the firing line


first off, demons are DA, not BA.
I think demons get a bad rap, becuase of the social meaning of 'demon'. Remember that demons were once angels, who excersied free will and were cast down because of it. does that make them evil? I do not think so.

Yes, certain entities can wreak havock on peoples lives. Entities conjured by inexperienced practitioners; BA entites are clever, they can say that they are something else, some can mimic the energy of what they claim to be. That is why it is our responsibillity as keepers to make sure those we buy from have enough experience. Dont just rely on the reviews - most keepers cant recognise the energy signature of a fae and how it differs from a vampire. I say MOST, not all, and i am one of the most. Its very nice to see a positive review, but people usually comment on how active the spirit is, not wether it is the right thing. Sometimes there can be a bit too much blind faith.

Also, I talked about this with a seller recently, and she places demons in the middle of the DA spectrum.

I would recomend that you read this
http://hauntedtarotmagick.yuku.com/topi ... nfo?page=1
it has a lot of demon information on it.

And now, I casually step back from the fireing line

I agree.
It seems people only want to bring up the situations where peoples lives have gone to crap by inviting certain entities into their homes...and the ones who have zero issues are never used as examples.
I was at first *very* reluctant to share that I kept demons, but after much thought, and after reading so much here on the forums...I felt it might be better to actually admit this, and allow people to see that not all demon keepers are hiding under their bed praying for help, or doing a bevis and butthead laugh as they click BUY.
Perhaps that's what everyone seems to hear the most of, so that's what the majority and socially accepted vision is....and maybe terror, that's why you only hear about the bad situations.
I have heard bad things about ALOT of situations...some involving people who have bought one spirited vessel and received something...well lets say something they did not want and could not identify...and something very BAD for them.
We can put whatever label we want on that "unwanted" thing...but they thought they bought something very light (along the lines of a fae). And subsequently needed help because of it.
I can't speak of all the conjurers and D keepers out there, but I do know one pretty well and she is an awesome person with an enviable life, and shes not 17 (not that there there is a thing wrong with being 17, but my point is she has stood the test of time through many many years).
i dont think we should base everything on what we read in forums.
It does not start and end here....many things are not discussed, and it has alot to do with the witch hunt mentality with demon keepers in general.