ShadowSage wrote:Spot on, Magnolia. It's something that i've recognised myself at this point. It can arguably apply to any worrisome metaphysical situation. People aren't trained to deal with it so they don't know what to do and panic. Then they get help (often wrong), they believe they have a demon, etc, and then it spirals out of control. I've only been here a year but i've seen probably about 4-5 instances of this already, including from myself, and it's a recurring theme that the worst of it is nearly always caused by the person(s) involved because they panic about the situation. That's just what i've learnt. 2cents

On another related note:

Terror Misu wrote:From what I've seen in my short time here, as Magnolia has said, true demon attacks are out of the ordinary... most of the time it's a trickster or malicious feeder entity inciting fear, etc. The last time we had a mass demon situation -- a former member got into demon-keeping and started taking in legions of 'em from SE. I don't know what happened but they turned against him and it required serious intervention, as in... they wanted him dead and almost succeeded.

This may come across as rude, but i just want to get this said once and for all.
I made a long post once ages ago about all this and it seems to have been entirely forgotton. This person didn't invite legions of demons into his house, he just got 3. Then he went and wanted to get rid of them. He did. He had nasty experiences. He got told by some random person that he had a "rage demon" bound to his soul from a past life. So he panicked. Then he tried to get more help. People on here kept encouraging this. Eventually things got so out of proportion, that he was told, by the very practitioner i warned about, that he had "legions of demons in his house". What is happening to him now...i don't know, but i hope he's alright. I personally don't believe his problem stopped though, and i don't think the qu'ran helped in the long run. 2cents

His problem really is EVERYTHING that goes wrong with mis-diagnosis and was more blown out of proportion than anything else. I do sympathise and understand because his experiences were becoming nasty and i can completely understand why he behaved like he did...but i stand by what i said that it was likely the result of something entirely different no matter how improbable it might sound. I was the only person that was trying to put forward(apart from mag and ash) that it wasn't quite right what he was being told. I'm getting annoyed that people still think his life was saved by Black dragon when it very likely wasn't. 2cents
Imo, his case could be a poster for what happens with mis-internet diagnosis.

Belzarcalidin wrote:Kind of off topic but, would any of you know were those posts are at about that person being attaked by demos and wanting to be a warrior of light. I can not find the treads. :Anyone::

I'm not sure if the thread is still up,i think it got moved to tenure and i don't think tenure can be moved to open forum I'm not 100% sure so maybe someone else can chime in?

As for the whole demon thing..People would much rather believe it is a demon attacking rather than just an average person..It's not rare and unlikely at all..To say that is just ignorance in my opinion..(not saying anyone in this topic did) I had a sh!t load of psychic attacks..Lasted a year,and still happens occasionally now...So many people kept telling me it was a "demon attack" and not a person "it was a malicious entity"...No it wasn't it was just another person..
"Was i sure?" was the most common comments..as well as "are you sure it's not just a headache?" There is much more to an attack then a headache..It wasn't a demon,or entity...People would much rather believe such than believe it was another person..You limit yourself to that,you gain nothing and panic in the long-run of not knowing how to protect yourself as "it's very unlikely a person would psychic attack"

not really..And this doesn't mean that every attack is a person either,just use some d*mn common sense..Don't hide the fact that psychic attacks happen as that just brings more panic as people will then say "well so-and-so said it was unlikely" and it doesn't help the person at all..

To really help someone is to get out of your cultural zone and only believe what your culture has to say,get rid of the "everything is a demon" religious concept,Stop focusing on what you deal with and how "high up" you are on the metaphysical scale..

As in other types of magickal professions your an amateur...Conjuring and spells is kiddy work compared to some other types of magick work and professions...So look at all possibilities..in no way is anything possible,but look at other types of systems not just your own..My 2cents anyway.... And this isn't directed at anyone.

creepyhollows wrote::rant:
After spending a few hours in Helpdesk with some of the Magnolia & Ash-specific tickets, I can tell you that there is a piece of gritty sand irritating me, and the sand is the plethora of "demon" issues.

I've had 10 tickets in the last week with people saying "I need you to confirm what so-and-so told me about (insert name of whoever is in trouble) being attacked by demons". 10 tickets, one week, 7 days, 240 hours, 14,400 minutes... and the first one I opened I knew what it was, I forwarded it to Ash, he said exactly what I thought it was, and I linked them to a thread here where someone else had a similar situation and it was not a demon. An hour later they wrote back and they said the person's situation on the thread was exactly what they were going through.

The answer to everyone's problems cannot always be "demons". Did I miss a time warp where we have gone back to the Catholic doctrine of the Middle Ages by labeling everything that is "evil" or causes someone a problem as "demon"? Has the paranormal community actually reverted from being able to correctly identify individual beings to simply just "demonizing" everything? For what, to make it simpler? Sure, it would be easy to just tell anyone with a problem, "it's a demon"... but shouldn't the pursuit of the paranormal community to CORRECTLY identify individual species & beings, rather than just slapping the "demon" label on everything?

And, when did single demon attacks become faux pas? Now every "demonic" attack is multiple demons? Tens? Hundreds? Did I miss the memo that said now single demons are no longer capable of attacking people, they now have to travel around like a caravan?

Perhaps it is my years of study, my education, or my vast experience, but the trend for the past few years to just shove everything in the "demon" category is really unnerving. The answer, by sheer statistics, cannot always be "demon"!!!

There thousands of other entities in the world, millions between all the Realms, dimensions, and Universe that are capable of causing someone trouble. You would be SHOCKED what an errant, belligerent, human spirit can do to torture a living human. Incubi/Succubi, Vampires, Gargoyles, Cambions, Manananggals, just to name a few that are regularly kept by Spirit Keepers were classified "DEMONS" by the church. Are they demons? NO.

Demon is a word that is so grossly overused I would love to make it illegal for someone to call something a demon without them providing the TRUE classification of a demon. "Demon" is NOT a classification in itself. When someone tells you that you have a "Demon" you should IMMEDIATELY say "Okay, what classification of demon is it?". And I am not going to write a cheat sheet here for anyone to copy. Anyone who truly deals with demons should know the classifications and once they give you the actual classification & name of the demonic being then you can verify it from there.

Are demon attacks possible? Yes. However, they don't usually attack in DROVES, there is usually a singular demon who attacks a person. Multi demon attacks are far more rare and certain criteria happens that would tell a professional that they are, indeed, dealing with a multi demon attack, and I assure you those criteria are NOT what you see in the Hollywood exorcism films.

Through the years, Ash & I have assisted in LITERALLY thousands of human issues with troublesome entities, and I can tell you that "demon" wasn't the answer to them all. We've assisted in minor disturbances to major, serious issues. And we follow a very strict, professional protocol when dealing with people with real problems. There is a code by which those who help truly plagued individuals follow because it works, because it's tried & true, and because it takes knowledge & experience to execute. And, again, "demon" isn't the answer to every situation.

Misdiagnosis is a problem, slight for some, serious for others, and if you are having a problem, I PROMISE you that getting a crowd of people involved in the diagnosis & recovery of your issue is NOT the way to go. The "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome is a syndrome for a reason. You need to work with one person, MAYBE two, at a time, and if you're going to work with two people they should be in communication with each other to ensure they aren't each doing something that will hinder the other's work, or hurt you. And, as much as you don't want to hear it, real diagnosis & recovery takes TIME, it isn't overnight, it isn't immediate, and while there are some things that can be done to relieve some of the pressure, real diagnosis requires establishing patterns, examining all possible sources & aggravations, and reviewing any personal problems or mental deficiencies that could contribute or effect the situation. And if a person DOES have a minor or major imbalance (clinical depression, addiction, stroke victim, etc) then there are DIFFERENT protocols to be followed to provide them help!!!!

It's insane to see the amount of internet diagnosis that fly through email, Facebook, and chat rooms, & it's absolutely stunning how the professional protocol for providing people help that will be lasting & in their best interest goes out the window for the quick McService, fast food approach.

Sigh.

ShadowSage wrote:I'm getting annoyed that people still think his life was saved by Black dragon when it very likely wasn't.

AngelDust wrote: All I know is the day after I contacted Black Dragon and he said things would get better in 24 hours it did.

Sometimes mis-diagnosis isn't very serious, the issue resolves itself, or the spell weakens, or the creation (usually by the person without their realization) dissipates when energy is no longer feeding it. And sometimes, as I said, the situation gets a little better from the help, but as with mis-diagnosis, the situation is resolved, the problem isn't over, and it returns. Usually, someone is so exasperated by that point that they initially don't even feel like getting help anymore because all the wrong help has made them depressed, sometimes despondent, and feeling like nothing will ever make it right again. So you have someone who already went through an agonizing experience that has turned their life upside down, thought they were getting help & things were going to be better, had their hopes up, then things get bad again, and they are crushed.

AngelDust wrote: Either you see it or are so biased with dislike you don't.

AngelDust wrote: Some of us have proven our intuitive abilities over and over.

AngelDust wrote:While others with no proof slam people still with their unproven opinions and track record.

I got the impression that wasn't the case. He seemed very angry and i don't feel that his situation did resolve itself.

Angeldust,

Ali and Brother Rahman have been working with me since you have pointed me to them. I have been getting DEEEP SLEEEEEP, dreamless, perfect sleep with no nightmares ever since i have made contact with them. So thank you very much. They are still working on me for 3 more days i believe.

What i am concerned about now is that Frater and his friend also tried helping me with energies. No they didn't send dark entities to me but they also prayed to the most high and all that stuff and gave me shielding and stuff. I don't know what to do at this point. So many people are involved.

Is there any way you can mediate that thread of yours to the benefit of Black Dragon and Brother Rahman without discarding Frater's help?

Also, you are very right... people sending me those spirits to "help"
me did not help one bit. It is faith in the most high and sacred prayers that pushed the demons and weakened them to the point of no nightmares.

Again thank you AngelD and I'm sorry i cannot step into any of those topics anymore because it is linking people negatively left and right to the enemy and it's NOT good at all.

-KENN