THE ANSWER CANNOT ALWAYS BE "DEMONS"

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Ashino Tsume roshi
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-arianna- wrote:I cannot understand you calling demons calling other demons (or people calling other people) to your house a democracy. When I invite someone in my house that someone is not allowed to invite other people unless I say it's ok, and if they do and I don't want them there I will not let them in. The same applies for my spirits.
I know not everyone operates the same way ( Caiyros being a typical example of a different way of keeping spirits) regarding spirit keeping, but in my house it's not a democracy. It's my house where I am number one and what I say goes, even if none of my spirits like my choice or agree with it. It's not democratic. We don't vote to make a decision. If I want someone's opinion I'll ask for it. If someone wants to give me their opinion it's fine too. But I have no obligation to follow what any of my spirits consider the best choice if that is not what I want. I don't want uninvited spirit guests (uninvited by me I mean) and if one of my spirits starts breaking this rule it will eventually be rehomed.
So I don't understand what demons you keep inviting other demons has to do with democracy. I live alone, so I'm only one. If a group of ten people invade my home and want to bring other people here too then they most probably be able to but not because they're more and it's a democratic decision, but because they have overpowered me by sheer force.

I am not sure if I am understanding you correctly, but if I am, then here is my answer to what you say.

I have no problem with what you call Dark Spirits as 1. In my virual nation are Dharmapalas, Cwyth, and so on. Also I have been initiated into the Qabalah - persons-times-and places not for mention and also into the highest tantras of Buddhism including the full mandelas of VajraBhairava Yamantaka aka The Lord of the Lord of Death (the repetition is correct here) and am not bound to this form but am merged with this form of being. For Warrior, Dark and Wraithful spirits, dharmapalas, and so on, they have a blank check to protect myself and the integrity of my virtual nation.

Before you can run a show you have to transcend the need or the desire to do so. The paradox is: If you must be" Boss", then you aren't one. If you are in charge, then you have abandoned many specific (but not all forms) of caring....

On the other hand, there is no reason for you to have dark spirits if you don't want them. No one is twisting your arm (as far as I can tell)....So where is the actual problem.....???
Caiyros



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-arianna- wrote:I cannot understand you calling demons calling other demons (or people calling other people) to your house a democracy. When I invite someone in my house that someone is not allowed to invite other people unless I say it's ok, and if they do and I don't want them there I will not let them in. The same applies for my spirits.
I know not everyone operates the same way ( Caiyros being a typical example of a different way of keeping spirits) regarding spirit keeping, but in my house it's not a democracy. It's my house where I am number one and what I say goes, even if none of my spirits like my choice or agree with it. It's not democratic. We don't vote to make a decision. If I want someone's opinion I'll ask for it. If someone wants to give me their opinion it's fine too. But I have no obligation to follow what any of my spirits consider the best choice if that is not what I want. I don't want uninvited spirit guests (uninvited by me I mean) and if one of my spirits starts breaking this rule it will eventually be rehomed.
So I don't understand what demons you keep inviting other demons has to do with democracy. I live alone, so I'm only one. If a group of ten people invade my home and want to bring other people here too then they most probably be able to but not because they're more and it's a democratic decision, but because they have overpowered me by sheer force.

REALLY?

They the majority voted to band together, they voted to subdue you. Are you silly enough to think a vot is a ballot you put in a box...

A vote is simple compliance, acceptance, and joined effort.. A democracy plain and simple....

THIS IS MY QUOTE YOUR REFERENCING, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT u WROTE..

Pretty soon you will have an uncontrollable mass of people that want something you dont.. We call this a democracy and within a democracy the majority rules... Now apply that to demons and only then will you understand the possible severity of demonic oppression.

EXPLANATION:

You dont understand because you do not see the point Im reaching.. Thank you Caiyros, but I am well aware of the meaning, but the issue here is that you 2 are not aware of mine... So let me explain..

I was using the word to describe the mind and how people will allow things in their space and these things will allow other things within that space until the will is subjected and subdued....

When you allow anything into your life you have effectively voted for it.
Whether good or bad...
You claim your rules are law, but is that really 100% true.. The answer is absolutely not...

Within all of our lives we have invited people into our lives or spirits which have invited other people or things into our lives and that is undebate-able and it was a test of will.. Now if the will was weak you were drug down a path of unfortunate events. If your will was strong then you dominated..

The purpose of my statement is simple, the majority rules.

If your will is weak and that which is around you will is stronger it is in charge.
If they are more than you, the majority rules.

If you are weaker and the other is stronger the majority or he who has it wins...

A true democracy as Caiyros stated has never existed because man and his innate evil tendencies will never allow it.. So the definition and your wonderful work is invalid for i was not using the word in that or within that frame work and being words are swords and become mighty weapons when personified I was using it to drive a point...

)

Its funny how this beautiful democracy always end in nothing more than a mob full of unruly, destructive and dangerous people who's only out for their own selfish end and are only joined together due to their shared goal of selfishness.... That's my definition of demons banding together and this is also my definition of democracy... Look around there are many perfect examples of this....

Please read what I said, before you comment about what I didnt say..

Yes I am using a smartphone and its difficult to follow me, but try, instead of trying to defend something I didnt bother attacking..

FYA


The more i think i understand, the more i realize i hv been in the dark for a very long time, thus what i perceive as light is simply my desire to behold it once more...

"Remember as time remembers so shall you remember, and as time corrects so shall you correct"

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I don't have a problem with dark spirits and I don't have a problem with the basis others' relationship with their spirits. My previous post refers to this statement:
Frater Y.A. wrote: You ever invite people in your home with less than honorable characters?
These same people invite others over and if you allow it the others will invite others.

Pretty soon you will have an uncontrollable mass of people that want something you dont.. We call this a democracy and within a democracy the majority rules...
Just because you have invited a person or a spirit/entity in your house doesn't mean you allowed them to call their friends and even if you did this doesn't mean that they can do what they want into your house just because they're more in number. I realize how this CAN happen with demons, but this a totally mistaken use of the word democracy. That's what I was trying to explain. I thought I was clear enough, apparently I wasn't.

Edit: I just saw your post Frater. I understand what you where trying to say and I'm not defending anything. I'm just pointing out an incorrect use of a word that can lead to misunderstandings. Either you think democracy is an applicable concept or a utopia by definition because of human nature it doesn't change the fact that the word means something specific that was used out of context. That is what I was pointing out. If you don't agree with the definition of the word it still doesn't change the definition.


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Well on topic, Magnolia and/or Frater, can you give us some more insight elaborating in-depth about the protocol, like where do you draw the line? How can you tell the tell-tale signs of real Demonic Oprression?

In person it would be a lot different and more obvious then examining online which is more difficult. But in either situation?


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-arianna- wrote:I don't have a problem with dark spirits and I don't have a problem with the basis others' relationship with their spirits. My previous post refers to this statement:
Frater Y.A. wrote: You ever invite people in your home with less than honorable characters?
These same people invite others over and if you allow it the others will invite others.

Pretty soon you will have an uncontrollable mass of people that want something you dont.. We call this a democracy and within a democracy the majority rules...
Just because you have invited a person or a spirit/entity in your house doesn't mean you allowed them to call their friends and even if you did this doesn't mean that they can do what they want into your house just because they're more in number. I realize how this CAN happen with demons, but this a totally mistaken use of the word democracy. That's what I was trying to explain. I thought I was clear enough, apparently I wasn't.

Edit: I just saw your post Frater. I understand what you where trying to say and I'm not defending anything. I'm just pointing out an incorrect use of a word that can lead to misunderstandings. Either you think democracy is an applicable concept or a utopia by definition because of human nature it doesn't change the fact that the word means something specific that was used out of context. That is what I was pointing out. If you don't agree with the definition of the word it still doesn't change the definition.
You speak english is this correct?

The english language is unique a mirage if you will, because we can use a word in any way we like to drive a point home..

What do we know about a democracy?

government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them ...

you are a body= government
your mind AND WILL=people
that which you invite in"OTHER"=people

that which you invite in becomes greater and rules over you subjecting your will..

IS THIS NOT A FORM OF A DEMOCRACY?

HAVE A GOOD DAY!


The more i think i understand, the more i realize i hv been in the dark for a very long time, thus what i perceive as light is simply my desire to behold it once more...

"Remember as time remembers so shall you remember, and as time corrects so shall you correct"

"Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You.” Dr. Seuss

Be wise, be vigilant, be silent....

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Killarican wrote:Well on topic, Magnolia and/or Frater, can you give us some more insight elaborating in-depth about the protocol, like where do you draw the line? How can you tell the tell-tale signs of real Demonic Oprression?

In person it would be a lot different and more obvious then examining online which is more difficult. But in either situation?
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Well on topic, Magnolia and/or Frater, can you give us some more insight elaborating in-depth about the protocol, like where do you draw the line? How can you tell the tell-tale signs of real Demonic Oprression?
I can't speak for Frater at all, but as far as Creepy Hollows (myself & Ash) go, I will give you a brief overview. I don't want to go into the whole procedure because it's long, and just the more detailed step-by-step of the overview I'm about to give.

Basically, professional protocol dictates:

1. Gather all information on any medical issues; previous, outstanding, expected. And, if the case is SEVERE then it can require a full physical by a physician (including blood work, EKG, etc).
2. Gather all information on any mental issues; previous, outstanding, expected.
3. Gain a full report of ALL activities performed by the person in, at least, the last 30 days, preferably 90 days (or longer if the attack has been longer).
4. If the person is in the Arts, is a practitioner, or follows a regimented religious group, or is a member of a secret organization, all duties fulfilled, all rituals, spells, ceremonies, etc that have been performed or cast.
5. If the person is a collector of the paranormal; all artifacts brought into the home up to 30 days PRIOR to the first incident. Artifacts include ANY antiques, previously owned items (garage sales, thrift stores, etc), spirited vessels, spelled vessels, haunted artifacts. And a list of any spells cast.
6. A list of all the new acquaintances (usually first name, occupation, how/where they met, etc)

And, most importantly, an entire account of everything that has happened since the first incident to the present day. I mean everything. Any noises, odors, sounds, visions, dreams, emotions, temperature variances, any change in bodily functions. And usually we require that someone keep a full journal while we are helping, which includes recording anything & everything that happens during the day, and their dreams at night.

Of course, these are subject to the situation, circumstances, etc. But, you'd be surprised how many times the smallest detail can unravel a mystery. And, certainly in our years we've been surprised at the source of attacks. For the few members here who remember our VERY first forum in 2006, you'll remember the woman who bought a $1k Victorian, hand-crafted mirror at an antique store that had actually previously belonged to a practicing witch (come to find out), and since the antique store owners didn't believe in "that stuff" they didn't tell anyone that they had bought it at an estate sale of that witch's ancestors. And, after we had the list of artifacts she'd brought into the home, I asked for the phone number of the antique store where she bought it, I called them about the mirror & if they knew where it came from, any history behind it, etc and come to find out all of this history behind the mirror wasn't presented to potential buyers because they didn't believe in it, and therefore didn't think it would have any impact. It wasn't demons, it was a real, negative energy coming from the mirror in what we surmised was a cast-back spell to the Spiritual Realm; likely for divination purposes.

The diagnosis process can be from a moderate amount of time, to a greater amount of time, depending entirely on the cooperative nature of the person, the source of the trouble, and whether we are diagnosing in person, or not.

Frankly, for severe cases, we'll gather all the information and refer it to someone local to the person who is a professional in the field.


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Magnolia, what would you do in the case of someone who lives in an area that has no one local that could help with this problem?


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If it's a real case, where the person has been cooperative & willing to assist in the diagnosis, then there is always someone who will help. Sometimes, by "local", it can mean someone even 4 hours away. I've never had a real case (demonic or otherwise) where someone was really willing to get help, and we couldn't find someone who wouldn't help them. Sometimes it requires a lot of phone calls, back & forth, phone tag, and shuffling, but there's never been a real case where someone wasn't in the vicinity willing to help.

The participation & attitude of the person being attacked goes a long way to real professional deciding whether or not they want to get involved. Anyone can be upset, panicked, etc, and even sometimes angry, belligerent, and frustrated... however, if someone is being intentionally evasive, if they are unwilling to follow protocol, and getting 10 diagnoses and trying to compare everyone helping to everyone else, then it raises red flags, and most local professionals (not internet people) will not take a case.

Again, I'm not going to post a list of red flags because that gives the people who are working the system for attention more information than they need. The pros know the red flags, they know the keywords, and behaviors to look out for to differentiate between different sources of attacks... or, a hoax.


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I think Mags is making sense and I think the rest of you and your posts on this thread are spinning private attitudes, besides the point, or are egotistically wrong and willfully playing superior. Basically its idiotic, because either people are talking about "Not Themselves" (Frater for instance) or the Starter of this thread are talking about their own private world and implying validation by doing that (several) or are trying keepthings from getting out of control...when there is no possibility of talking sense into people (Killa) and myself for wasting my time trying to define some basic things in what we call the real world and reading sophomoric arguements about democracy from people who have never read Greek philosophy in greek where the subtleties begin (the subtlety of the dual case) and so on......this is nothing more than a bar brawl without broken glass and chairs.....It is a total waste of time kiddies and hoodies.......
Where are the real people who are trying to reach ....DUH...some Common Ground....and if people want to talk about demons on and on and say the saying thing on all sides over and over...fine...but its getting tiresome....

Hey, anyone here know about the Fire Spirits that Underline the Abramelin Squares?

Or how easy it is to use the 2,3, Sephera perhaps along with the 6th...but be sure you understand what Da'ath means...and the qliphotic shells will leave you alone. Oh! Lets talk about the Cwyth! You first!

I am sick of this pompousness. Truth is not an ego mirror. Its a tool.

Screw this!
Caiyros


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