In another post, Magnolia mentioned the misuse and overuse of the word demon.
Can we do some work here to get some solid definitions going?
Definition of Demon
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I think the issue with this would be that, not everyone wants to play along..wants to abide by a collective definition. Some people just want to use the term 'demon' or are going by the definition other sellers have set for it; regardless if for instance I would state otherwise.
But for the sake of this, just going to say..I think it would be more appropriate or at least easiest to consider any being of 'demonic' nature that falls more in the DA range, an infernal. And any being of 'demonic' nature that falls into the BA range, a straight up demon (and then there are different types of demons).
But for the sake of this, just going to say..I think it would be more appropriate or at least easiest to consider any being of 'demonic' nature that falls more in the DA range, an infernal. And any being of 'demonic' nature that falls into the BA range, a straight up demon (and then there are different types of demons).
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I get your point.
And the distinction you make is a good one.
Couple of points to add. Aerial spirits are also found in the grimoires as demons and these can also be good or evil (beings of duality). So we have to consider aerial as well as infernal when we think of beings who have been classed as demons.
Just stumbled across this online:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31440437/The- ... Demonology
The introduction is excellent. It mentions pagan views of demons as being neutral (and tricky spirits who tend to interfere in human affairs) while Christian views regard them as evil. So it would seem that religion whether we like it or not, does come into play in this kind of a definition.
Rosemary Ellen Guiley
Also of note that the demonologist is equating djinn with demons... many people do. Djinn are clearly infernal beings, so the correlation is sensible...
And the distinction you make is a good one.
Couple of points to add. Aerial spirits are also found in the grimoires as demons and these can also be good or evil (beings of duality). So we have to consider aerial as well as infernal when we think of beings who have been classed as demons.
Just stumbled across this online:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31440437/The- ... Demonology
The introduction is excellent. It mentions pagan views of demons as being neutral (and tricky spirits who tend to interfere in human affairs) while Christian views regard them as evil. So it would seem that religion whether we like it or not, does come into play in this kind of a definition.
The Encyclopedia of Demons and DemonologyOutside monotheism, demons have a long history of interfering in the affairs of the physical world and the lives of people, though not always with the goal of subverting souls. They act as tricksters and create annoying disturbances. More seriously, they cause illnesses, insanity, disasters, and bad luck. Some hold long-standing grudges against humanity. The djinn of Arabian lore, for example, say they were the original inhabitants of Earth and were evicted by God in favor of humans. They want their homeland returned and some of them carry out guerilla warfare and terrorism against humans to that end.
Rosemary Ellen Guiley
Also of note that the demonologist is equating djinn with demons... many people do. Djinn are clearly infernal beings, so the correlation is sensible...
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You are right. In my mind I've considered many of them another 'sort' of infernal, not literally but of that nature.Adelphia wrote:Aerial spirits are also found in the grimoires as demons and these can also be good or evil (beings of duality). So we have to consider aerial as well as infernal when we think of beings who have been classed as demons.
And great point about djinn.
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I'm not sure how it works, but it seems some rare few can even be both aerial and infernal.NoctemAeternus wrote:You are right. In my mind I've considered many of them another 'sort' of infernal, not literally but of that nature.Adelphia wrote:Aerial spirits are also found in the grimoires as demons and these can also be good or evil (beings of duality). So we have to consider aerial as well as infernal when we think of beings who have been classed as demons.
And great point about djinn.
Thanks, yeah... many people merge demon/djinn and also immortal too. Some immortals of course have been classed as demons, and I was told lately that demons are have lifespans of 100,000 years.
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NoctemAeternus wrote:I think the issue with this would be that, not everyone wants to play along..wants to abide by a collective definition. Some people just want to use the term 'demon' or are going by the definition other sellers have set for it; regardless if for instance I would state otherwise.
But for the sake of this, just going to say..I think it would be more appropriate or at least easiest to consider any being of 'demonic' nature that falls more in the DA range, an infernal. And any being of 'demonic' nature that falls into the BA range, a straight up demon (and then there are different types of demons).
I like that definition
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yeah, I always thought more black arts myself, but, like Huff, I also like the definition. Also wanted to mention I like seeing Adelphia back on the forum again !!!!! (of course, I've been gone myself some!!!!)..........
I've found that evil usually triumphs unless good is VERY, VERY careful.......
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"Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord...." but sometimes a little offered help is appreciated........
Don't get MAD---get EVEN.........
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Pathological/psychological Demons,A pathological entity caused by or altered by manifesting disease/mental illness..Which goes with other types of mental demons such as the judgment demon,Perspective,Illusion,Duality,Reversal...
Theological Demons,all have been considered demons by one or more religions, though in a lot of cases a demon in one religion may be a god or goddess in another...Example Astarte is considered the female counterpart of Astaroth...In pagan religion she is the Goddess of fertility, sexuality, and war..
Theological Demons,all have been considered demons by one or more religions, though in a lot of cases a demon in one religion may be a god or goddess in another...Example Astarte is considered the female counterpart of Astaroth...In pagan religion she is the Goddess of fertility, sexuality, and war..
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There's a lot that goes into the classification of demons. The first thing you have to do is segregate religious demons from non-religious demons. Incubi, in some religions, is described as a "demon". Are they? No. But, sexual promiscuity, and sexual deviancy is wrong in multiple religions therefore any sexual congress outside of wedlock is evil, therefore it must be a "demon".
That alone proves that what some religions classify as "demons" have within them multiple species that could be further identified individually. Which, in turn, would provide greater help & assistance to those wanting to identify what plagues them.
To use a very crude example, but one that I think is relate-able to everyone, is if you have a bug infestation and you go the store to buy a bug exterminating product, you could purchase any number of them. If you haven't taken the time to look at the bug, and you just say "I want to get rid of the bugs" you could buy a general spray, which may kill them, may slow them down, or may do nothing at all. However, if you ask a store associate they'll ask you what KIND of bugs you have and you will be prompted to return home and examine the bugs further so you can buy the right kind of spray to effectively rid yourself of them.
In this crude example is the core, identification.
As for the "demons" people are keeping as companions, you should know exactly what you have as a companion, even if they are benign. You should always know what you are sharing your life with.
That alone proves that what some religions classify as "demons" have within them multiple species that could be further identified individually. Which, in turn, would provide greater help & assistance to those wanting to identify what plagues them.
To use a very crude example, but one that I think is relate-able to everyone, is if you have a bug infestation and you go the store to buy a bug exterminating product, you could purchase any number of them. If you haven't taken the time to look at the bug, and you just say "I want to get rid of the bugs" you could buy a general spray, which may kill them, may slow them down, or may do nothing at all. However, if you ask a store associate they'll ask you what KIND of bugs you have and you will be prompted to return home and examine the bugs further so you can buy the right kind of spray to effectively rid yourself of them.
In this crude example is the core, identification.
As for the "demons" people are keeping as companions, you should know exactly what you have as a companion, even if they are benign. You should always know what you are sharing your life with.
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And well, just like dating is all based on AD and such, it's the same thing here I guess... I mean, I won't use my own definitions as it will not do any good in communication, just like not using the AD dating when talking about dates.... Or is it not?
:leprechaun::
I find it funny that even lots of those who complain about Judeo-Christianity, their ideas and definitions define the entities and godforms they work with as Demonic in the Xtian POVDaemons are good or benevolent nature spirits beings of the same nature as both mortals and gods, similar to ghosts, chthonic heroes, spirit guides, forces of nature or the gods themselves (see Plato's Symposium). Walter Burkert suggests that unlike the Judeo-Christian use of demon in a strictly malignant sense, “[a] general belief in spirits is not expressed by the term daimon until the 5th century when a doctor asserts that neurotic women and girls can be driven to suicide by imaginary apparitions, ‘evil daimones’. How far this is an expression of widespread popular superstition is not easy to judge… On the basis of Hesiod's myth, however, what did gain currency was for great and powerful figures to be honoured after death as a daimon…” [2] Daimon is not so much type of quasi-divine being, according to Burkert, but rather a non-personified “peculiar mode” of their activity.
In Hesiod's Theogony, Phaëton becomes an incorporeal daimon,[3] but, for example, the ills released by Pandora are deadly gods, keres, not daimones.[2] From Hesiod also, the people of the Golden Age were transformed into daimones by the will of Zeus, to benevolently serve mortals as their guardian spirits; “good beings who dispense riches…[nevertheless], they remain invisible, known only by their acts”.[4] The daimon of venerated heroes, were localized by the construction of shrines, so as not to restlessly wander, and were believed to confer protection and good fortune on those offering their respects.
Characterizations of the daemon as a dangerous, if not evil, lesser spirit were developed by Plato and his pupil Xenocrates,[2][dubious – discuss] and later absorbed in Christian patristic writings along with Neo-Platonic elements.
In the Old Testament, evil spirits appear in the book of Judges and in Kings. In the Greek translation of the Septuagint, made for the Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, the Greek ángelos (άγγελος: "messenger") translates the Hebrew word mal'ak, while daimon (or neuter daimonion) carries the meaning of a natural spirit that is less than divine (see supernatural) and translates the Hebrew words for idols, foreign gods, certain beasts, and natural evils.[5] The usage of daimon in the New Testament's original Greek text, caused the Greek word to be applied to the Judeo-Christian concept of an evil spirit by the early 2nd century AD.
And well, just like dating is all based on AD and such, it's the same thing here I guess... I mean, I won't use my own definitions as it will not do any good in communication, just like not using the AD dating when talking about dates.... Or is it not?
:leprechaun::