Bunni wrote:I believe their items are real... but I also believe they spell out trouble, which is in my opinion, best avoided.

Any actions without the proper knowledge to back them can spell out trouble, this isn't something that can be solely related to the cabal. If your smart and know your stuff, the only thing that you will achieve through the cabal is power, wisdom, and maybe a few enemies along the way but they only help you to grow even stronger. The more power you acquire the more you stand out, which can be attributed to any other path as well.

Lord Validus wrote:I was accepted, yet was never able to get into the Sanctuary. And yes, Godking, I sent in several e-mails to them about this, none of which were replied to. Regardless, I know there is a thread on S&S about the Cabal's demons being BA. It's in that advanced section and you have to use Google cached pages to view it, but it's there none the less. I remember Akelta, and not just a random member, was the one that said they're BA, and she's a trustworthy person who works with demons regularly. Thus, I'm not so confident in the supposed benevolence of the Cabal, even to it's own members.

Little late getting to this thread but are you aware of the forum provider being changed? It's no longer through ProBoards but through phpBB. The old board isn't being actively monitored anymore so make sure your applying to the right board.
http://theblackcourt.com/cabalsanctuary/index.php

suicidex66 wrote:If your smart and know your stuff, the only thing that you will achieve through the cabal is power, wisdom, and maybe a few enemies along the way but they only help you to grow even stronger. The more power you acquire the more you stand out, which can be attributed to any other path as well.

From what I've gathered, the only thing the Cabal seems to pump out in it's members, is an elitist attitude and egotism.. and that can be expected of any cult-like group that keeps it's "knowledge" hidden from all but its members. The cabal works with BA and that alone spells trouble, whether you are a genius or an idiot. But this is my opinion.

well remember bunni they claim it's BA but someone else might as easily say its really dark DA. However, having talked with astral about it, and not remembering if she mentions it in this thread, it does seem that the patrons from there encourage people to become a-moral. Not necessarily a bad thing but extremely difficult.

Bunni wrote:

suicidex66 wrote:If your smart and know your stuff, the only thing that you will achieve through the cabal is power, wisdom, and maybe a few enemies along the way but they only help you to grow even stronger. The more power you acquire the more you stand out, which can be attributed to any other path as well.

From what I've gathered, the only thing the Cabal seems to pump out in it's members, is an elitist attitude and egotism.. and that can be expected of any cult-like group that keeps it's "knowledge" hidden from all but its members. The cabal works with BA and that alone spells trouble, whether you are a genius or an idiot. But this is my opinion.

That's possibly because we push ourselves harder than most. We strive in an environment that constantly batters against us and any indignation of doubt means a bumpy road. We're attempting to reach God-hood, something that most practitioners never even think about. Constantly trying to evolve and better ourselves. So yea, some may seem egotistical and act like the best of the best and theres nothing wrong with that. Take a look at the different sections of the military, the marines for instance, other sections call them the same things you just did yet they still get <<Removed by Mod>> done.

To play devil's advocate a bit, pride is power. Not only does one gain from a sort of placebo effect by believing in themselves, but they're more likely to move forward while others are sitting on the sidelines. Those with pride are more likely to enter the race, while those with humility are more likely to sit on the sidelines because they don't think they're skilled enough to do anything else.

I actually do really like some of the descriptions for the Cabal's patrons, Sanazel in particular sounds incredibly attractive to me in every aspect of her description, but with a trusted source saying they're BA, I probably won't interact with the Cabal anymore. I have a great appreciation for the darkness in others, but obviously if that darkness is big enough where the being/s can not return loyalty, it's counter productive to continue working with them. In an alliance it is crucial that *all* members involved have each other's interests at heat.

There's no real reason for people to bash something with names and stereotypes just because they're too scared to venture into it themselves. Or "smart" whatever helps those people sleep at night.

Bunni wrote: that can be expected of any cult-like group that keeps it's "knowledge" hidden from all but its members.

Like I mentioned in my last post, it's not so much the knowledge but rather the amount of work and risk we put forth, sometimes through using that knowledge and sometimes through outer workings. Not every member of the cabal works solely with the magicks of the cabal. Also there are some things you can only learn by working on yourself, just reading something a drawing a few symbols isn't gonna help. I've also mentioned this months back but the cabal isn't a starter group. The magicks we learn and utilize only compound on what we already have in place. I've been to deaths door and back on multiple occasions before I even joined the cabal, thats a life experience not too many can say they've had. Through my experiences I have gained an affinity for death essence and my work with the cabal has allowed to to tap into that potential even further and bringer it to an extent I would have never gotten to through solitary work. If you want the honest truth, then yes, I feel, I know, I am better then most of the practitioners I come across. Not because I can crush them like bugs, but because of my soul and what I have risked to experience and grow it. There's so much pettiness in this world; wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. Whatever you want to label the actions humans make, so spiteful.

Instrument of the end Fire of 83 wrote:well remember bunni they claim it's BA but someone else might as easily say its really dark DA. However, having talked with astral about it, and not remembering if she mentions it in this thread, it does seem that the patrons from there encourage people to become a-moral. Not necessarily a bad thing but extremely difficult.

I don't really see them as BA or DA. They just are. I feel like most are beings that don't really have a moral compass, they can't do right or wrong because they both have no meaning to them.

On the topic of being a-moral, when your clouded by the bias of humanity you'll never be able to see the truth of the world and the humans around you. So yes, most of us choose to remove our emotions through sheer willpower or through using them to fuel our magicks until they are so drained that they are practically non existent. Others choose to offer up their emotions to their patrons when forging a pact and even more choose to only dampen certain emotions. Not everyone chooses to do this though, some even choose to heighten them. However without emotion you are able to act within your and everyone else's best interests without being biased. It's a clarity that can't truly be described with words.

I wouldn't say its the patrons encouraging this though, it's more of a personal choice. We are all able to freely choose our patrons when we join, so if one seems out of your comfort zone you just choose one that is. If you were alluding to member of the cabal are a-moral in the sense that they would willingly attack anyone without provocation then I would have to hopefully disagree with you there as well. Although I can only speak for myself since I don't inquire often as to how my Brothers and Sisters spend their time.

Lord Validus wrote:To play devil's advocate a bit, pride is power. Not only does one gain from a sort of placebo effect by believing in themselves, but they're more likely to move forward while others are sitting on the sidelines. Those with pride are more likely to enter the race, while those with humility are more likely to sit on the sidelines because they don't think they're skilled enough to do anything else.

I actually do really like some of the descriptions for the Cabal's patrons, Sanazel in particular sounds incredibly attractive to me in every aspect of her description, but with a trusted source saying they're BA, I probably won't interact with the Cabal anymore. I have a great appreciation for the darkness in others, but obviously if that darkness is big enough where the being/s can not return loyalty, it's counter productive to continue working with them. In an alliance it is crucial that *all* members involved have each other's interests at heat.

When you make your pact with the Blighted Lords your essentially becoming part of each other. Transfiguring a sliver of your soul through their essence, with you having the full capacity to mold it in any way you wish. The only payment so to speak is your loyalty to the cabal and the Blighted Lords Grand Plan, to that end the Blighted Lords would never lay a finger on a member of Maergzjirah, nor would any other member, for doing so would break the pretense of the pacts of every disciple and in doing so the Blighted Lords would lose their grasp in this domain and alot of power.

Lord Validus wrote: To play devil's advocate a bit, pride is power. Not only does one gain from a sort of placebo effect by believing in themselves, but they're more likely to move forward while others are sitting on the sidelines. Those with pride are more likely to enter the race, while those with humility are more likely to sit on the sidelines because they don't think they're skilled enough to do anything else.

Then I have to say that you don't really understand humility. Humility doesn't equal weakness or insecurity. A humble man would run the marathon, outrun everyone else and say at the finish line: "Oh, everyone could have done that, I'm no one special". A humble man doesn't think he won't achieve anything or doesn't sit there not striving to be better, he accepts his weaknesses and works on them, he just doesn't see himself as perfect but it doesn't mean he doesn't aspire to be it.
It's more along the line of thinking "I may be good, but there's always someone better out there." Also humble people (not those who pretend to be) know exactly what they are capable of, because to become humble you have to go to your limits and recognize them.

"Pride comes before the fall" is true, mostly because it makes you think you're strong when you are not and go head to head with things you shouldn't. It's just that, placebo. You wouldn't go hit a tyrannosaurus rex with a nerf bat because you told yourself it's excalibur (or even more fun, going against a being you know nothing about, sun tzu would turn in his grave on that one).

suicidex66 wrote:The only payment so to speak is your loyalty to the cabal and the Blighted Lords Grand Plan, to that end the Blighted Lords would never lay a finger on a member of Maergzjirah, nor would any other member, for doing so would break the pretense of the pacts of every disciple and in doing so the Blighted Lords would lose their grasp in this domain and alot of power.

...unless they come to the conclusion that you're a danger to them and take you out of the picture. You never, NEVER will be able to understand the plans, motivations and thoughts of beings like that. They live for a long time and plan accordingly. So I would take anything like that with a grain of salt, a large one at that. Working and talking with them is one thing, but a pact? Whole different universe. Also ask yourself, as a god, would I want to help others become a god? As I said, I don't pretend to understand anything these beings think, but it's at least food for thought.