THERE IS NO BOOK OF THE DEAD, BUT, ANI DID......

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mrgana wrote:OK,

I have been arguing with myself about this thread wanting to put some of my thoughts together, but condensing years of study and work has not resulted in a viable response for my overly critical mind....anyway, after hours of re-writing, finally got something written....pressed the post reply button, and voila...NOTHING....not one word was saved or posted. It never happened before today. So i guess i am not meant to do anything here at the moment.

Leaving with a thank you for the thread, interesting..
M. :star:
Off topic...

*Pats your hand*

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Bunnicular wrote:
mrgana wrote:OK,

I have been arguing with myself about this thread wanting to put some of my thoughts together, but condensing years of study and work has not resulted in a viable response for my overly critical mind....anyway, after hours of re-writing, finally got something written....pressed the post reply button, and voila...NOTHING....not one word was saved or posted. It never happened before today. So i guess i am not meant to do anything here at the moment.

Leaving with a thank you for the thread, interesting..
M. :star:
Off topic...

*Pats your hand*

You're quite a gem to the forum, and I am mighty glad you are part of it.
:hug: Thank you.... ::thanx::


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Noctifera wrote:
MWatson-CHolmes wrote:You have a right to your wrong opinion, but you and "the necro squad" are not egyptologists nor have ever made any public claims to understanding Eastern Thought and Eastern Thought came from the Yoruba to the Meroe to the Ancient Egyptians and then directly to Sumer & China......What Moulee & I have plotted out is absolutely correct.
Caiyros
Well, I thought we could have a civil exchange but I suppose not. This is a childish manner for you to head off a response.
Especially given the fact that I only said your statement was misleading, not incorrect. Therefore your response here is totally irrelevant to what I actually meant to convey.

Aside from that silliness...
First of all, there is no such thing as a wrong opinion.
Secondly, what I have posted is important and clearly both factual and entirely reasonable.

Finally, one does not have to be an 'egyptologist' to know how to read.

But for that matter, nobody has any reason to believe you an 'egyptologist' just because you claim to be, and your oft insinuation that nobody else knows what they are talking about (mostly when they conflict with you on some level) is a rude assumption.
There is no room for elitism in the quest for real knowledge..

I only want to encourage others to research for themselves and read these readily available texts, rather than limit themselves to the commentary of self-proclaimed experts.
All any individual can have about the true significance of something that was certainly before their time and out of a modern context is a theory, interpretation or opinion.

Seriously, you are not being disrespected. I wouldn't answer your statement unless I knew you to be intelligent, and so nothing like that was implied. But several of us have direct proof that what has been stated about the mish-mosh of Alchemy, Asian, Tibetan, & alchemical ideas.....do appear to have come from this particular papyrus, and that the use of this in the manner mentioned will definitely work. Also, I do feel that the "Darkness" of necromancy, doesn't really fit well with the Necro Mindset. But if I sounded insulting it was not my purpose to do so. I think it is all right to totally disagree with another's view and to surmise how that view came about, but I know that you were polite about your very different view.

Cai-


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""But for that matter, nobody has any reason to believe you an 'egyptologist' just because you claim to be, and your oft insinuation that nobody else knows what they are talking about (mostly when they conflict with you on some level) is a rude assumption.
There is no room for elitism in the quest for real knowledge..

I only want to encourage others to research for themselves and read these readily available texts, rather than limit themselves to the commentary of self-proclaimed experts.
All any individual can have about the true significance of something that was certainly before their time and out of a modern context is a theory, interpretation or opinion""

quoted from Noc - my response follows: I don't lie or make things up. The others I mentioned also know what they are doing or knew what they were doing. Opinions can be tested. The statements I have stated are a pattern that have been tested....and not found wanting.

I have attached a pic of a beautiful cosmetics jar from the 18th Dynasty...Just nice to look at.

Here is some info that may be of interest:

(Bio from Wikipedia)

Sir Alan Henderson Gardiner (29 March 1879, Eltham – 19 December 1963, Oxford) was one of the premier British Egyptologists of the early and mid-20th century. Some of his most important publications include a 1959 book on his study of "The Royal Canon of Turin" and his seminal 1961 work Egypt of the Pharaohs, which covered all aspects of Egyptian chronology and history at the time of publication.
Two major contributions to ancient Egyptian philology by Gardiner are his famous three editions of Egyptian Grammar and its correlated list of all the Middle Egyptian hieroglyphs in Gardiner's Sign List. Publishing Egyptian Grammar produced one of the few available hieroglyphic printing fonts.
In 1915 Gardiner was also able to crack the so-called Proto-Sinaitic writing system by deciphering the "B'alat inscriptions".
He was educated at Charterhouse and Queens College, Oxford; he was later a student of the famous egyptologist Kurt Heinrich Sethe in Berlin.
Important publications[edit source | editbeta]

The Admonitions of an Egyptian Sage from a Hieratic Papyrus in Leiden (Pap. Leiden 334 recto). Leipzig, 1909 (reprint Hildesheim - Zürich - New York, 1990).
A Topographical Catalogue of the Private Tombs of Thebes, with Arthur E.P. Weigall, London, Bernard Quaritch, 1913 (read online).
"New Literary Works from Ancient Egypt", Journal of Egyptian Archaeology 1 (1914), 20-36 and 100-106.
Notes on the story of Sinuhe, Paris, Librairie Honoré Champion, 1916 (Read online, Kelvin Smith Library).
"The Tomb of a much-travelled Theban Official", Journal of Egyptian Archaeology 4 (1917), 28-38.
"On Certain Participial Formations in Egyptian", Rev. ég. N.S. 2/1-2 (1920), 42-55.
"The Eloquent Peasant", JEA 9 (1923), 5-25.
Egyptian Grammar: Being an Introduction to the Study of Hieroglyphs, 3rd Ed., pub. Griffith Institute, Oxford, 1957 (1st edition 1927), ISBN 0-900416-35-1
The Theory of Speech and Language, 1932
"The Earliest Manuscripts of the Instruction of Amenemmes I", Mélanges Maspero I.2, 479-496. 1934
Ancient Egyptian Onomastica. Vol. I—III. London, 1947.
The Ramesseum Papyri. Plates (Oxford 1955)
The Theory of Proper Names: A Controversial Essay. London; New York: Oxford University Press, 1957.
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TheFancifulFox wrote:I don't know, Necro Squad sounds kind of catchy. What do you think; comic book, cartoon, goth version of the Ghostbusters? Great idea, Caiyros! Keep them coming.

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Good Idea ! lets have some fun!
m.de s-s.
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MWatson-CHolmes wrote:I am an egyptologist. I briefly corresponded with Sir Alan Gardiner (just before his death - the greatest of the greats!), and studied with Dr. Maryann Galvin a student of Sir Alan. Further I have studied the subject since my mother got me interested in Ancient Egypt when I was in 6th grade. Also, I sell ancient artifacts, but they are not cheap. ALso as I have studied with the 16th Karmapa and the Dalai Lama amount otheres (He wrote a Forward to a book I co-authored), So I do know what I am talking about. Also, not at all trivial, Mags gave me a binding to ANI.

There are NO Books of the Dead, either in Egypt of in Tibet. Period. What is called the Egyptian Book of the Dead is really r'w n'w p'r't m h'r'w and the absolute proper name for it is "Book of Coming Forth Unto Day's Light. "

It is not a series of discreet spells, but a terahedron mass of different human (then in BC) perceptions of Human-God Form Idenities to be "seen", "known", and "felt" by the dead soul, who was to be trained in reading and memorizing the papyrus text before death, everything is interconnected, and thus, then the human spirit (all 7 different parts of him/her) could remain in spirit, be reincarnated as a new soul, or be reincarnated as an old soul. Body parts were preserved in geometric patterns in order to remind the disembodied spirit about the "sacred tetrahedron" of the different issues of Self-Alone and/or Self-With-Body (Astral, Physical, Whatever).

Ancient Egyptian can be spoken in 2 different ways: 1.) The "added-syllable way (Egyptians did not write vowels...and this way was the "ordinary reader way; 2.) A specific way of vocalizing the words. This way way for the "ride" in the ABsolute Immortal World" Hopefuuly, before the end of thsi year, I will release a CD of reading the entire papyrus version the 2nd way, so it would have the "tetrahedron effects".

The Tibetan Book of the Dead: The actual name is: Bardo Thodol translated roughly as "the Book of What Lies between Each Cognition - and is an "opening" to the highest level of Buddha-Tantra which is Aoxchen (or Dzogchen) - The Path Beyond Paths - The Great Perfection. The lowest form of teaching is Fantastically Interesting, The Middle Path of Teaching is Interesting; and the Highest Path is Boring and Instataneous (often). Namkhai Norbu is one of severasl Dzogchen Masters.

The mediaeval Concept of Death, Destruction, Curses, and 'playing with death bodies (either in fancy or in reality, is basically an ugly waste of time and a part of arrogant mediaevalism that still prospers in some quarters.

The pics below are Bottom pic: Ramesis II - head; Middle pic: Ramesis II - "signature"; Top Pic: The All-Seeing Hand of Force of Sekmet.
Caiyros

{note by: m.d.s-s.) The Alchemists most recently rediscovered the whole pattern: Base Line: One deals with their own direct perception of certain energies and the tiny tiny moment between one thought and the next. N.B. The Alchemical books needed to be read are: Aleister Crowley's 777; Lexicon of Alchemy by Martinus Rulandus; Alchemy by Titus Burkhardt; Rudolph Steiner's Artices of Alannus ab Insulus...and Mystere des Cathedrales by Fulcanelli (French title in English translation).
I wish I knew you person, I would have loved to learn from you :thumbup:


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Zero wrote:
MWatson-CHolmes wrote:The mediaeval Concept of Death, Destruction, Curses, and 'playing with death bodies (either in fancy or in reality, is basically an ugly waste of time and a part of arrogant mediaevalism that still prospers in some quarters.
Mind elaborating on this a bit?
Here is a beginning:
People who fear death and repress the knowledge of their fear, turn it into a secondary elaboration that then gives birth to ritual.

However, if you disagree there are 2 sources that are excellent - one a book - and 2 a website:

The Book: The Black Death by George Deaux. It is THE BOOK on the subject, and covers all an everything. George is a friend of mine and a great writer - although not to well known. It has been available since its publication in (if I remember correctly) 1969-70.

The website: http://voyagesextraordinaires.blogspot. ... neant.html
the second website: http://dudavocados.blogspot.com/2012/09 ... neant.html.

c.a.s


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MWatson-CHolmes wrote:quoted from Noc - my response follows: I don't lie or make things up. The others I mentioned also know what they are doing or knew what they were doing. Opinions can be tested. The statements I have stated are a pattern that have been tested....and not found wanting.
You may not; but it's a legitimate point that while you can imply that I or others are without knowledge and understanding of the subject, despite what has been exhibited.. one can easily say the same about you. Therefore it isn't fair to insinuate what you have, just as it wouldn't be fair of me to say you know nothing simply as I disagree with your interpretation or the way you present some things.

But regardless, I've enjoyed musing on the subject.. because in fact the rites of ancient egypt are something I continuously study alongside various other cultures that are pertinent to my path and interest. I do, clearly know a little something and am as passionate about it as you are.. simply from a different perspective.

Also to Nycto, and Aurum, thank you..I appreciate that.
And certainly.. art springs in every thought.


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Noc - It seems like you might enjoy "The Press" (in the sense of "pressing weights in a gym - there is one aspect which has a bit of pain in it, but at the same time - there is a release of psychic, mental, and physical energy which can be exhilerating - at least I do. Anyway, I am not a hurt doggie when some people disagree with me, and probably you aren't either. So this needs not be in question.

But I am an egyptologist - an egyptologist is someone who has and is studying egypt - and knows enough to do some important and interesting things. ANd the same goes for Moulee.

So here are some: WHile living in New Hope, PA - years ago....I was part of a small group of people who were appraising, selling, and donating rare ancient artifcacts, some directly from digs...and there was a great circle of people in the area that we could talk to, a friend of mine Richard A. recently ending his Doctors Without Walls in the Amazon (Hail Yemaya!) - his daughter was a protege of Samuel Noah Kramer , and so we got a chance to listen to his wisdom on Sumer, etc, and there was a lady wom I was close friends with at the time, who called me up, say "drop what you're doing, and come to my condo at V2. Well I knew her so well that she rarely was that flipped out, so I toddled off to her condo...

There was an old many there, frail and obviously well educated.....He was the medical photographer at the surgical autopsy x-rays and photographs (1960s) on the mummy of Tutankamun taken from the excavation of Lord Carnavon. He said that as they unwrapped and "put the body "back together") that a smell came over the room - it was a unique smell and was quite frigtening "when things began to happen, seeing things...it wasn't LSD or something like that, I've had my fun with those things..."

And then after showing him some really rare Mayan cold hammered pieces....we got onto Egypt...At the time I was studying predynastic Egypt and had managed to get a flint hand axe found near the Valley of the KIngs that dated (apporx.) to 400,000 BC (I still have it) and we were talking about how it was interesting that the earliest use of the egyptian word n't'r (neter or neteru) mean't Hight POwer the the Universe (God if you will) and later mean't "hand axe" So it was clear that the Ancient Egyptians "worshipped" and planned-for - Extension of their Powers in All Areas....So expansion of themselves, their work, their ideas, and so on were always with them. And naturaly the expansion of Life Itself became a major issue.

So realize that the Ancient Egyptians had "planned self growth" - we now know that they had light bulbs, wet cell batteries, electroplating, and mathematics and work skills to build the pyramids.

Now jump of from there to - TA-DAAH! - Archaic Ancient Egyptian (ca. 3400 BC) verb forms: the conjugation of the verb "to be" both stative & dynamic forms - all were included under 2 meanings - TO BE = for a while or TO BE = Forever. The use of this verb form speaks volumes of how the Ancient Egyptians, Initailly saw time - and it was not linear as is modern verbs of "to be". So one can say that in the ancient egyptian mind There Was No Past - or - Future - bthere was only continual movement in 3 forms - 1. FOR A WHILE; 2. FOREVER, 3. IN MOTION AT MOMENT....and so they kept records in a way that satisfied all aspects of "Their TIme Truth".

LAter, this changed with influences from Phoenicia, and other places such as Ancient Greece, and so on.
The God/Goddess forms which came from this early period, were kept in the "recognition" of earlier verb forms and became what we would call immortal, but the rest changed.

Now the average person today would conclude (from being beleagured by Still-Existing Mediaeval Thought) created the view that the gods/goddesses were imortal, and the rest of the people were not......but it is much more likely that the ANcient Egyptians from late old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom until the Assyrians ruined Egypt, .....that "the Gods/Goddesses were immortal as because of a learned way to re-focus the mind, and thus began to do what I mentioned at the beginning of the thread. And that the body played some part in the focus of becoming an immortal within another dimension.

Both Moulee & I have experimented with the linguistic methodology, and the early results are amazing, and a few private things have occurred that are mind blowing...and so this is where we stand. Poeple can believe what is comfortable or is popular, but the alchemy of this project, tells us, that we are basically correct, and only have to work out the details......

In Any case Egypt is a major part of my life and I have studied it for more than half a century. And so it is as well with Moulee's. Another person who is well-versed in egyptology is Arsine /Crone, but I haven’t heard from her in a long time.

pix below - A Stone Model of the Great Pyramid Carved by Hemiunu 4th Dynasty. Because of this model's age, it shows that at the very beginning the plan was 3 descending pyramids.......
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MWatson-CHolmes wrote:
Zero wrote:
MWatson-CHolmes wrote:The mediaeval Concept of Death, Destruction, Curses, and 'playing with death bodies (either in fancy or in reality, is basically an ugly waste of time and a part of arrogant mediaevalism that still prospers in some quarters.
Mind elaborating on this a bit?
Here is a beginning:
People who fear death and repress the knowledge of their fear, turn it into a secondary elaboration that then gives birth to ritual.

However, if you disagree there are 2 sources that are excellent - one a book - and 2 a website:

The Book: The Black Death by George Deaux. It is THE BOOK on the subject, and covers all an everything. George is a friend of mine and a great writer - although not to well known. It has been available since its publication in (if I remember correctly) 1969-70.

The website: http://voyagesextraordinaires.blogspot. ... neant.html
the second website: http://dudavocados.blogspot.com/2012/09 ... neant.html.

c.a.s
I really don't see why people fear death... It really doesn't seem as scarey as people make it out to be. I guess what people fear is whether or not their crossing will be a painful one or not...

Thank you for the links. But... I'd like for you to elaborate with your own views on why working with 'death bodies' is an ugly waste of time.


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