Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby NyctophiliaRaven » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:28 pm

The cynic in me has seen the world...

I don't think it's possible for one to move through life, even with the best of intentions, harming no one.

However... a bad conjurer most ultimately becomes a problem for themselves... I've had someone else's conjure go wrong, and the nature of the entity was immediately obvious, and the solution was likewise.

Those who receive conjures who are incorrectly labeled or incorrectly bound are not without resources, both within themselves, and here...

Those who CREATE incorrectly labeled or bound conjures, on the other hand... generally don't get a lot of help.

Conjuring is a crash-and-burn school... if you don't crash, welcome to the peerage. If you do... well, that's not our problem - clean up your own mess.

I suspect the reason for this is quite practical, and not as heartless as it first seems - firstly, if we spent all our time cleaning up would-be conjurers, we'd have no time for actual work. Secondly, if we spent all our time cleaning up would-be conjurers... they'd never learn how to conjure clean.

Allow me to bring out my inner cynic again...

This is the school of hard knocks. People learn by good advice, or bad experiences... and most of the time, they are incapable of recognizing good advice until they've had bad experiences to demonstrate that it WAS, in fact, GOOD advice. Essentially, in this world, people grow through pain.

Far be it for us to prevent a would-be conjurer from learning and growing, yeah?


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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby Morgana » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:08 pm

Bump.

This topic is hot at the moment...and it is not a new one. This thread is very helpful.
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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby Likes2Read » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:44 pm

On the subject of cleanup after things go awry...

I would hope that there'd be at least SOME experienced conjurers who would be willing to offer instructions to the one who had the mishap, on how they might rectify the situation. I'm not saying that there should be a team of people ready to clean up everyone else's messes, on demand, because then how would the less-experienced people learn?

But it would be helpful to the conjurer, and any customers they might have, if there were more experienced people available to look at a situation and offer information that the conjurer could use to rectify the issues themselves.

As the saying goes, "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." People who are learning are going to goof up sometimes. Goof-ups are pretty much a guarantee, for anyone who steadfastly ignores solid advice from more experienced people. But even people with constructive attitudes can bite off more than they can chew. Perhaps it would be a good thing if there were some sort of "crisis center" where people could turn in the event that they realize that something has gone wrong.

I know that on CH, there is always the possibility of saying, "Write an emergency help desk ticket for Magnolia and Ash", but they're only two people and they need to do things like eat and sleep. ;)

But Step One for any would-be conjurer needs to be, "Can you answer the questions in the OP? If not, maybe it's not time to start conjuring yet."


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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby Aurora Magick » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:56 pm

Conjuring and conjuring for sale are two different things. Anyone can conjure. You should only be subject to public scrutiny if you intend to offer your conjures to the public.



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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby Noctua » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:01 pm

Likes2Read wrote:Perhaps it would be a good thing if there were some sort of "crisis center" where people could turn in the event that they realize that something has gone wrong.


This is somewhere recently established people could try out -
http://www.paranormaladvicegroup.com/



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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby Likes2Read » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:42 pm

Aurora Magick wrote:Conjuring and conjuring for sale are two different things. Anyone can conjure. You should only be subject to public scrutiny if you intend to offer your conjures to the public.

On the one hand, I agree that there needs to be way more scrutiny for a person whose work is going to go out to other people, especially if those others are inexperienced in problem-resolution themselves.

But even people who only conjure for themselves need to be able to answer safety-related questions, because maybe their mistakes WILL impact others in the vicinity. If they don't know what they're doing, it could end up being the equivalent of the careless smoker who starts a fire that not only burns their house down, but damages the neighboring homes as well. Bringing through something that they can't handle could impact them, plus the people around them and maybe even the neighborhood.

So just like the smoker needs to strongly internalize the message, "Never smoke in bed!", the metaphysical practitioner needs to understand what safe practices are and why they're important. They also need to have the equivalent of a fire extinguisher on hand for smaller mishaps, and, ideally, more experienced practitioners to call on who'd fill the role of a fire department, for the issues that go beyond the scope of the fire extinguisher's abilities.


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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby Aurora Magick » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:09 pm

Likes2Read wrote:
Aurora Magick wrote:Conjuring and conjuring for sale are two different things. Anyone can conjure. You should only be subject to public scrutiny if you intend to offer your conjures to the public.

On the one hand, I agree that there needs to be way more scrutiny for a person whose work is going to go out to other people, especially if those others are inexperienced in problem-resolution themselves.

But even people who only conjure for themselves need to be able to answer safety-related questions, because maybe their mistakes WILL impact others in the vicinity. If they don't know what they're doing, it could end up being the equivalent of the careless smoker who starts a fire that not only burns their house down, but damages the neighboring homes as well. Bringing through something that they can't handle could impact them, plus the people around them and maybe even the neighborhood.

So just like the smoker needs to strongly internalize the message, "Never smoke in bed!", the metaphysical practitioner needs to understand what safe practices are and why they're important. They also need to have the equivalent of a fire extinguisher on hand for smaller mishaps, and, ideally, more experienced practitioners to call on who'd fill the role of a fire department, for the issues that go beyond the scope of the fire extinguisher's abilities.

Conjuring exists far outside the scope of spirit keeping. It's part of various magickal traditions. Many people of various cultures conjure, channel, or otherwise work with ancestor and nature spirits.

We have no right, in a practice that has only recently become popular, to decree the rules for interactions like that. While it would be nice if everyone wanted to agree to a standardized set of rules, it's simply impractical. For example, there is a tradition in voodoo I believe, where the human willingly let's themselves be possessed.
Any "for sale" conjurers spirits will, or should, be prevented from possessing people via their binding contract. But in this tradition, it is the goal of the ritual to be ridden by your patron spirit or God.

I am merely saying, make whatever rules you want for those you buy from. Certainly that is your choice.

But I am a staunch believer that private time is private, and if someone wants to try their hand at conjuring privately for themselves or for religious purposes, they should be allowed that freedom, without being subject to rules from a group that may not have considered their feelings to begin with.

The whole, keep everyone safe, thing is noble but it doesn't go very far. People who conjure when they are unready are not strong enough to open a door through which all manner of baddies can enter. They really only risk themselves. If a spirit is weak or small enough to come through via such a person, they pose no real threat anyways.

Conjuring is not like calling a friend and inviting them over. Conjuring is like finding a new person, inspecting them, and once you've determined they fit what you are looking for, you must act as the connection - they come through you. In this way the strength of conjures are directly related to and limited by the strength of the conjurer. A pathway that is one inch in diameter cannot accommodate a three story tall demon Lord.

Like I said - for sale it's fine, that's your money, you vote with it. But I will never support policing people's private lives as long as they aren't killing raping or abusing I don't care what you do in your home. Conjure up all of hell for an extravagant orgy if you wish. None of my business.



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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby Bunni » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:19 am

bump


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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby starfire » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:27 am

Bumping!!!

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Re: Questions You Should Ask Your Conjurer

Postby NyctophiliaRaven » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:37 pm

Likes2Read wrote:On the subject of cleanup after things go awry...

I would hope that there'd be at least SOME experienced conjurers who would be willing to offer instructions to the one who had the mishap, on how they might rectify the situation. I'm not saying that there should be a team of people ready to clean up everyone else's messes, on demand, because then how would the less-experienced people learn?

But it would be helpful to the conjurer, and any customers they might have, if there were more experienced people available to look at a situation and offer information that the conjurer could use to rectify the issues themselves.

As the saying goes, "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." People who are learning are going to goof up sometimes. Goof-ups are pretty much a guarantee, for anyone who steadfastly ignores solid advice from more experienced people. But even people with constructive attitudes can bite off more than they can chew. Perhaps it would be a good thing if there were some sort of "crisis center" where people could turn in the event that they realize that something has gone wrong.

I know that on CH, there is always the possibility of saying, "Write an emergency help desk ticket for Magnolia and Ash", but they're only two people and they need to do things like eat and sleep. ;)

But Step One for any would-be conjurer needs to be, "Can you answer the questions in the OP? If not, maybe it's not time to start conjuring yet."


MagickFromtheMysts wrote:I've had someone else's conjure go wrong, and the nature of the entity was immediately obvious, and the solution was likewise.


Once I'd dealt with the entity in question, I sat down with the conjurer and discussed the situation, and how they might make sure such an issue might be avoided in the future with other clients. Because I am more concerned about public safety than I am about my pocketbook and competition in the market, I am "willing to offer instructions to the one who had the mishap, on how they might rectify the situation" - though I don't offer that to everyone, and I'm picky about who I will offer it to... and I will only offer assistance to someone after they've tried their best to clean up the mess, and I only offer it on the basis that they will be using what I teach them to clean up the mess they've made as we go - I'm not going to do the work for them, as I think it's not only fair, but an excellent learning experience for them that they'll never forget.

The best training anyone ever gets is on the ground, running. :5


"She’s all the unsung heroes who... never quit." ― R. A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land
“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” ― William Shakespeare, Hamlet
“Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.”
― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices: First Series


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