FRAUDULENT SELLERS & SCAMS - PROTECT YOURSELF

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Magnolia
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In a perfect world there wouldn't be any fraudulent behavior. Everything would be peaches & cream, rainbows & Unicorns, and we would all gather around the firelight for s'mores and hot chocolates. Unfortunately, that's not the case. As with any industry the Metaphysical & Paranormal is home to scammers and frauds. They appear under name after name even though they are the same person. They do everything they can to tear down other sellers around them to give themselves credit but then disappear suddenly with all your money. They claim to be a group of people or several people when it's only one or two people. The methods and types of scams are endless.

There are ways to protect yourself and as much as we'd like to say we can always protect you, it's YOU who reads the advertisements, who socializes with would-be sellers, and who ultimately decides whether you want to spend your money with someone.

All we can do is give you the information you need to protect yourself and maintain the level of trust, respect, and integrity you are entitled to in this path. If you choose not to heed all the warnings and use some discretion then you have to realize you're taking a leap of faith with your trust and your money.

Where do I start?

This site is the single, largest resource available in the world on all things Spirit Keeping. So why waste it? You need to read, learn, and educate yourself so you are not taken advantage of by the scammers. We didn't spend 15 years building this resource of wisdom and knowledge for nothing. Ash, myself, and hundreds of members have left a long trail of informative bread crumbs for you to follow the right path.

Read the Myths & Lies thread

Read the Spirit Keeping FAQ Section

Read the Spirit Keeping Reference Section

If you're new to the community then I am going to strongly recommend you start your journey with established sellers/practitioners. Why? Because they already proved themselves. Does it mean avoid new sellers? No. But if you are brand new to this and you are just trying to find your way you need to acclimate with bindings you know are real. It's difficult for even seasoned Keepers & collectors to not become discouraged after they find out someone has scammed them. There have been times in the past when Keepers and collectors have walked away, sometimes permanently and sometimes for a while, because they felt violated. It's horrific and any time it does happen the rest of us feel terrible for them because they were robbed of their journey over a violation of trust that never should have happened in the first place.

Utilize common sense, if a site/shop is popular there's a reason... people trust them. It seems like such a simple bit of common sense but in the 21st century when everyone wants things now, now, now it's easy to get wrapped up in situations where people promise you something now, now, now. You'll find most times the bindings from the seller of your choice are worth waiting for, so don't let your impatience be your downfall. Bear in mind too just because a shop is new and not popular yet doesn't mean they won't become popular in time.

To boil it down to some very basic logic would you be more likely to trust a restaurant with an hour waiting list or the restaurant with a few or no people? Most people will wait before eating at a brand new restaurant to see if anyone else gets sick or anything bad happens, but the brave few go right in and hope for the best. If you're one of the brave few, you're a pioneer and you hope for the best, but if you get the worst then you don't mind if you wasted your money, but at least you know you're making that decision and you won't feel violated. You'll feel like "fool me once, shame on me" and you won't be fooled twice.

If you're new and you want to try upstart sellers, that's fine, but go into it knowing that somewhere down the line you may have an unwelcome surprise. I hate to even type these kinds of words but after the turbulence in the community over the last 5 years with scam artists or moderately honest sellers we all have to be realistic and not sugar-coat everything.

Ask a seller when they started, then use Google to verify they have been around that long. Sometimes sellers move sites so content can be lost when the URL doesn't exist anymore, but if they say they've been around 5 years but the only things you can find are 7 months old then ask around in the community because no matter what other buyers like yourself know how long sellers have been around. Our Seller Review section has reviews for sellers dating way back to 2005 as we moved all the reviews here in 2008 when we opened this version of the Forum. If they've been around any length of time they will have a Seller Review thread here.

Longevity & reputation is key

The single most identifying factor is reputation and longevity. No seller lasts if they are dishonest. It would be impossible because the overwhelming negativity would outweigh the scam. Using ourselves as examples, we survived two Witch Wars which brought a slew of fake, negative reviews, and constant bashing from new sellers who cut their teeth by badmouthing us. The reason we're still here is because no matter what they've said people realize the negative reviews aren't real. Actually, if you read them, they're quite ridiculous. This is true for all the long-standing sellers. We've all had our battle scars from other sellers or trolls which you can see spread all over the internet. The sellers still around are still around because they've proven themselves.

Does this mean you can't trust new sellers? No, but you should be prepared to lose your money if you happen upon the few bad apples.

How do I tell a seller is fake?

This list of questions is a great place to start:
http://www.creepyhollows.com/phpBB3/vie ... =3&t=61658

Take the answers they've given you to these questions and do some research. Do the answers make sense? Do the answers line up with what you know to be concrete truths in the community?

Use your common sense. Use your natural intuition. It's okay to be skeptical and to ask lots of questions. There's no shame in that and any seller whose worth their salt is used to answering all kinds of questions all the time.

Read the Seller Review Section. The reviews here are up to 10 years old. Almost any seller whose ever existed can be found here. Though I do have to caution that there have been times a seller has been around 6 months or more than a year before they are found out to be dishonest or outright frauds. Again, trust your intuition. As far as I know there has never been a seller who has been around multiple years who was discovered to be a fraud.

Keep in mind sometimes negative reviews aren't of the actual service/binding/work performed but of the personality quirks, shipping times, email response times, etc of the seller/site. Those aren't scam artists or frauds, it just means people take issue with the day-to-day operations. Even if a seller has reviews for being rude it doesn't mean their work is fake, it means they are a rude person. So bear that in mind too when you're reading reviews; what kind of review is it?

There are some people who believe anything is possible, to them there isn't such a word as "impossible". There can be Dragon Vampire Djinn Faery spirits all mixed up together, or there can be spells that will make your drawings on a piece of paper come to life and be your friend... if you're one of those people who believes nothing is impossible then be aware you're more likely to be scammed than someone who operates within the standards of the community. Does it mean you'll always be scammed? No. It does mean scam artists who have no idea what Spirit Keeping or Magick really are, and they make up off-the-wall ideas to attract you, will be happy to welcome you and take your money.

Sellers vs. sellers can be a bad sign

There's a fine line between honest criticism and outright slander/libel. No seller should quiz you on who you've bought from, what you buy from other sellers, or how other sellers interact with you. That has nothing to do with the work they perform for you. It's usually not a good sign when a seller asks you these kinds of questions. It basically opens the door for them to try to trash other sellers to prove to you how much they "know" so you'll feel more comfortable spending your money with them. They try to make it sound like they know so much more than other sellers; especially sellers who've been around a long time.

Sellers should be able to stand on their own, two feet. They shouldn't need to know everything about your dealings with other sellers or feel the need to trash-talk other sellers in order to gain your confidence. You aren't paying them for their opinions or lies about other sellers, you're paying them for their service. Trash talk is smoke in mirrors and diversion techniques to get you to look away from the real issue... are THEY capable of doing what THEY claim? It doesn't matter what they think about other sellers. It matters what THEY are actually capable of doing. Those are the things they should be talking to you about; not what their opinions are of other sellers.

This especially rings true if you are buying spirit readings. First of all, everyone know the rampant scams that follow spirit readings around so we ban them here & strongly discourage people from even doing it unless the spirit reader is the actual person who bound the spirit for you originally. Third party spirit readings are usually nothing but trouble. Please, all dear gods above, DO NOT tell a spirit reader the name of the seller you bought a spirit from. You are opening the door to some serious problems. A spirit reader only needs to know what spirit they are reading, that's it; name & type of spirit. If you want to read more about why third party spirit readings are a bad idea: http://www.creepyhollows.com/phpBB3/vie ... 7&p=375387


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Magnolia.
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furrybunny
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I agree. I personally hate when sellers trash talk other sellers. Even if it may be a legit reason I think it's a poor reflection of the seller.

Rofl [emoji23] I def am the type of person to believe anything is possible. Thank god for seller reviews or I would've been in debt and talking to pet rocks.


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dragynraken
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Famous seller always have a forum to proof their business. No seller will simply make random thousands of register user by themselves and post more than 10,000 relevant post. Before i buy i will not check 10 reviews instead more than 1,000 reviews or 1,000-10,000 forum post and the post must related to topic instead random typing or waste time typing 100 of essay of their stories.


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theDowser
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My magical/paranormal name...: theDowser

As a buyer on few meta sites, one key statistics I look for is the resale value one gets for these magickals incase one wants to rehome them.

Had this experience many years back, when I sold my CH lazy orb at 60% of my buying price and a buyer contacted me within 3 hours of listing. Alternately another rehome I was offering was sitting on the marketplace for weeks until I slowly and steadily brought the price down to 20%

This can be one more parameter for 'genuineness' of the offerings.


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Anteros
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Thanks for this great advice Mags.
I particularly like one of your closing lines: "If a seller can't stand on their own two feet..........."
That applies to so many areas in life I think!!


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Thanks for this much needed advice


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thanks for information is very usefull
if i read this at 2014 i would never bought from scammers


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To boil it down to some very basic logic would you be more likely to trust a restaurant with an hour waiting list or the restaurant with a few or no people?
Eh...honestly, I've been to those kinds of restaurants and sure the food was good, but you feel like just a number to them. For me, I like the smaller places where food is homemade from the heart and you are known by your name.


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Jafora wrote:
To boil it down to some very basic logic would you be more likely to trust a restaurant with an hour waiting list or the restaurant with a few or no people?
Eh...honestly, I've been to those kinds of restaurants and sure the food was good, but you feel like just a number to them. For me, I like the smaller places where food is homemade from the heart and you are known by your name.
Unless "the restaurant with few or no people" is because of bad food, bad service, hygiene issue, etc.:)


"Often the truth is in front of your face, but your eyes and heart are so full of lies that you can't see it." Shannon L. Alder

"May you live in interesting times, may you be recognized by people in high places, may you find what you’re looking for."
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If I could be anything, I would be...: Awesome. Always.
My super power would be...: Read other's minds
My magical/paranormal name...: Pretty awesome....

Personally, I have to say that I have found there are a great number of these issues. But, for me at least, this was all part of the learning process. Caveat emptor. Good luck, everyone.


Dear haters,
I couldn't help but notice that "awesome" ends with "me" and "ugly" begins with "u." I think I'll keep on being awesome.
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